Hey Zoot!

An excerpt from page 37 of "Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen (Bøk)";

I'm afraid our life must seem very dull and quiet compared with yours. We are but eightscore young blondes, all between sixteen and nineteen-and-a-half, cut off in is castle, with no-one to protect us. Ooooh. It is a lonely life ... bathing ... dressing ... undressing ... making exciting underwear ...

Word wrapped to 72 bytes with 5 byte indentation;

I'm afraid our life must seem very dull and quiet compared with yours.
We are but eightscore young blondes, all between sixteen and
nineteen-and-a-half, cut off in is castle, with no-one to protect us.
Ooooh. It is a lonely life ... bathing ... dressing ... undressing ...
making exciting underwear ...

Translated to Russian with 72 columns of utf8 text and 5 byte indentation;

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться очень скучной и тихой по сравнению
с вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят молодых блондинок, всем от
шестнадцати до девятнадцати с половиной лет, отрезанные от мира в своем
замке, и никто не может нас защитить. Оооо. Это одинокая жизнь...
купание... одевание... раздевание... изготовление захватывающего
нижнего белья...

Same as above except 72 bytes instead of columns (characters);

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться
очень скучной и тихой по сравнению с
вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят
молодых блондинок, всем от шестнадцати
до девятнадцати с половиной лет,
отрезанные от мира в своем замке, и
никто не может нас защитить. Оооо. Это
одинокая жизнь... купание... одевание...
раздевание... изготовление
захватывающего нижнего белья...

utf8 with multibyte columns is obviously superior but is only apparent to those who are truly capable.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o o- -o o- o- -o -o o- o- -o -o -o o- o- /) /) (\ /) (\ /) /) (\ (\ /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 04:17:52 GMT
"Maurice Kinal -> Zoot" <2989@7001.153.1> wrote:

Translated to Russian with 72 columns of utf8 text and 5 byte indentation;

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться очень скучной и тихой по сравнению
с вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят молодых блондинок, всем от

Indent seems to be ok.

Same as above except 72 bytes instead of columns (characters);

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться
очень скучной и тихой по сравнению с
вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят
молодых блондинок, всем от шестнадцати

Looks fine.

utf8 with multibyte columns is obviously superior but is only apparent
to those who are truly capable.

Maybe the UTF-8 echo would be best for these tests.

---
* Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hej August!

Maybe the UTF-8 echo would be best for these tests.

If I was looking to restrict tests to ONLY utf8 then I'd agree. I started the latest tests wrt creating little endian data for the headers (pkt and msg) using bash and only got sidetracked when discovering potential bugs regarding utf8 characters and word wrapping, especially right-to-left languages such as Hebrew.

This particular echoarea looks to be far less restrictive in scope which I believe is a plus in it's favour as the proper place for the usage of linux apps in today's complex and diverse network known as Fidonet ... or what is left of it.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

o- -o -o o-
/) (\ (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Hello Maurice,

On 14.03.24 4:17:52, you wrote:

An excerpt from page 37 of "Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen (Bøk)";

Translated to Russian with 72 columns of utf8 text and 5 byte
indentation;

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться очень скучной и тихой по сравнению
с вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят молодых блондинок, всем от
шестнадцати до девятнадцати с половиной лет, отрезанные от мира в своем
замке, и никто не может нас защитить. Оооо. Это одинокая жизнь...
купание... одевание... раздевание... изготовление захватывающего
нижнего белья...

Same as above except 72 bytes instead of columns (characters);

Боюсь, наша жизнь должна показаться
очень скучной и тихой по сравнению с
вашей. Мы всего лишь восемьдесят
молодых блондинок, всем от шестнадцати
до девятнадцати с половиной лет,
отрезанные от мира в своем замке, и
никто не может нас защитить. Оооо. Это
одинокая жизнь... купание... одевание...
раздевание... изготовление
захватывающего нижнего белья...

utf8 with multibyte columns is obviously superior but is only apparent to those who are truly capable.

Don't mind me. Just testing another FTN apparatus that mentioned utf-8 support. Looks like it works so far!

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: _thePharcyde | Winpoint test station (1:154/10.213)

Hey Nicholas!

Just testing another FTN apparatus that mentioned utf-8 support.

Winpoint? I've noticed at least one in the local net that appears to get utf-8 correctly.

Looks like it works so far!

Yep. I think for something like quoting we appear to have a good handle on it. Myself I am using coreutils' fold app for the number of columns - including multibyte and good ol' sed to do the indentation. I believe these tools are supplied in a cygwin enviroment (bash too!) so it *should* perform well.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o o- -o o- o- o- o- o- -o o- o- o- o- o- -o /) (\ /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) (\ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Ælc mann þe wisdom lufaþ biþ gesælig.
Everyone who loves wisdom is blessed.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice,

On 02.05.24, 19:51:50, you wrote:

Winpoint? I've noticed at least one in the local net that appears to get utf-8 correctly.

Yeah, just trying anything I can find so see what works as it should. There aren't many. :)

Yep. I think for something like quoting we appear to have a good handle on it. Myself I am using coreutils' fold app for the number of columns - including multibyte and good ol' sed to do the indentation. I believe these tools are supplied in a cygwin enviroment (bash too!) so it should perform well.

When you switch to specific languages, do you also have to switch fonts? I've definitely hit the 512 glyph limit on multiple occasions, and I don't have any GUIs on my Linux Vms. So my Windows machine is the only place I can get 99.9% utf-8, all of the time, between Thunderbird via NNTP, or this Winpoint.

... Ælc mann þe wisdom lufaþ biþ gesælig.
Everyone who loves wisdom is blessed.

Hafa a soð to syge, þonne þu secge hwæt.
Always have truth as your goal, whatever you say.

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: _thePharcyde | Winpoint test station (1:154/10.213)

Hey Nicholas!

There aren't many.

It works for me so far but I haven't done all that much with it.

When you switch to specific languages, do you also have to switch
fonts?

Sometimes but currently using latarcyrheb-sun32 which has more than enough coverage for fidonet in it's current atate of being. The only trouble I have is with proper word wrapping Arabic and Hebrew. Also with all the 24-bit character languages (Chinese et al) there are zero compatible terminal fonts, but have only seen one posting in Chinese in the last decade by someone that hacked a Apple app on his smartphone.

If needed I'd swich to a gui where there are more choices font-wise but definetly stick with vim ... with all the gui goodness turned on of course. As things stand today we're far beyond what is truly supported by the CHRS kludge, not counting the bogus ones such as LATIN-1. :::evil grin:::

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o -o o- -o -o -o -o -o -o o- -o -o o- o- -o /) (\ (\ /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) (\ (\ /) /) (\ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Gemæne sceal maga feoh.
Wealth should be shared by kinsmen.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On Fri, 3 May 2024 01:05:00 GMT, Maurice Kinal -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

It works for me so far but I haven't done all that much with it.

What FTN apps are you actually trying to use?

Sometimes but currently using latarcyrheb-sun32 which has more than
enough coverage for fidonet in it's current atate of being.  The only trouble I have is with proper word wrapping Arabic and Hebrew.  Also
with all the 24-bit character languages (Chinese et al) there are zero compatible terminal fonts, but have only seen one posting in Chinese in the last decade by someone that hacked a Apple app on his smartphone.

My current situation is only accessing all of my Linux VMs with PuTTY. So I'm not able to change the actual consolefont. However, PuTTY's fonts support quite a bit, maybe even more than most of the consolefonts.

If needed I'd swich to a gui where there are more choices font-wise but definetly stick with vim ... with all the gui goodness turned on of course.  As things stand today we're far beyond what is truly supported by the CHRS kludge, not counting the bogus ones such as LATIN-1.

Whaaaaat? Maurice using a gui? That's unheard of! :)

... Gemæne sceal maga feoh.
    Wealth should be shared by kinsmen.

I think I've found where you got these from, as I saw this one and the one prior when I copy and pasted one back to you. Did you just randomize all 48 from that site?

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Nicholas!

So I'm not able to change the actual consolefont. However,
PuTTY's fonts support quite a bit

Excellent. Basically all that is really needed is to get the codes right. Displaying them properly to whatever app shouldn't be as big as a deal as it appears to be methinks.

Whaaaaat? Maurice using a gui? That's unheard of! :)

Not quite but you're right about it being a rare sight in these parts. I've even contemplated running windows in qemu just to check on compatibilty issues but so far haven't taken the plunge. At this stage of the game it seems entirely unlikely.

Did you just randomize all 48 from that site?

Only the ones that were 79 bytes or less. Also had to get rid of the hard breaking spaces web people are so fond of. Normally those are hard to spot so I just let whatever filter go ahead and delete them whether or not they actually exist. It seems to have worked. Also I've added to the tagline file but it sounds like you found the original source. Not many Ænglisc speaking people these days but I figure we might as well go full backwards compatible whenever possible. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o -o -o -o -o -o -o o- o- -o -o o- o- o- o- /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) /) (\ (\ /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Ne byð þæt fele freond, se þe oþrum facn heleð.
He who harbours treachery against another is not a faithful friend.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Nicholas!

Winpoint? I've noticed at least one in the local net
that appears to get utf-8 correctly.

Yeah, just trying anything I can find so see what works as
it should. There aren't many. :)

Have you tested Apoint?

Some info here: http://kolico.ca/fidonet/echos/points/


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

On Fri, 3 May 2024 03:35:02 GMT, Maurice Kinal -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

 NB>> Whaaaaat? Maurice using a gui? That's unheard of! :)

Not quite but you're right about it being a rare sight in these parts. I've even contemplated running windows in qemu just to check on compatibilty issues but so far haven't taken the plunge.  At this stage of the game it seems entirely unlikely.

Sounds like you've been expanding your horizons lately! On that note, go ahead and install Windows, it doesn't bite. Maybe you can get a glimpse of the elusive blue screen of death once again. ;)

Only the ones that were 79 bytes or less.  Also had to get rid of the hard breaking spaces web people are so fond of.  Normally those are hard to spot so I just let whatever filter go ahead and delete them whether
or not they actually exist.  It seems to have worked.  Also I've added to the tagline file but it sounds like you found the original source.
Not many Ænglisc speaking people these days but I figure we might as
well go full backwards compatible whenever possible.  :-)

I think I went to run one of your taglines (even though you already do it under the original) through Google Translate, and it was one of the first sites to pop up. So I got stuck there reading a bunch of them for a little bit, and sent one back to you to see if you'd notice.

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

On Fri, 3 May 2024 12:28:00 -0400, August Abolins -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

 NB>> Yeah, just trying anything I can find so see what works as
 NB>> it should. There aren't many. :)

Have you tested Apoint?

Thanks for the link. I've tested two of the three listed there.

I didn't spend much time with OpenXP. Once I realized the UTF-8 support was limited to a one way direction, I lost interest. Great software, just not for me.

Most of the "cons" listed for WinPoint seem to have been addressed, as I didn't see any, if not most of those listed when testing it. It's also possible the link you provided is very old and hasn't been updated in awhile. This would probably be the winner if I were at all interested in being a point.

One of my main interests is current development. If it's abandonware, I'm not interested unless the source is available.

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Nicholas!

Sounds like you've been expanding your horizons lately!

Lately? This particular expansion officially got it's start back in 2012 but it was earlier than that when I actually got it working ... utf-8 FTN echomail that is. The Ænglisc taglines were just in case some anal moderator pulled an "English only" rules thingy on me. As it turned out nobody touched it and it continues to survive in it's original state.

go ahead and install Windows, it doesn't bite.

Nor does it byte, or at least around here it doesn't. To be quite honest I haven't seen a window's box in a couple decades now. Most everyone and their dog is using Android over the last 20 years or so with the occasional Apple device rearing it's ugly head every so often.

through Google Translate

In this case that doesn't work given that Old English isn't supported by any translation method that I am aware of.

sent one back to you to see if you'd notice.

I saw it. At first I thought you copied it from one of my messages. For the record I don't believe there are any copyright issues with them given their age. I believe the last official document written in Old English was bach in 1154.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o o- o- o- o- -o o- -o o- o- o- o- o- -o /) /) (\ /) /) /) /) (\ /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) (\ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Wenað samwise þæt hi on ðis lænan mægen life findan soða gesælða.
The unwise think they can find true joy in this transitory life.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On Sat, 4 May 2024 14:25:06 GMT, Maurice Kinal -> Nicholas Boel wrote:

Sounds like you've been expanding your horizons lately!

Lately? This particular expansion officially got it's start back in
2012 but it was earlier than that when I actually got it working ...
utf-8 FTN echomail that is. The Ænglisc taglines were just in case some anal moderator pulled an "English only" rules thingy on me. As it
turned out nobody touched it and it continues to survive in it's
original state.

I was referring to your use of GUIs and even the possibility of installing Windows. ;)

Nor does it byte, or at least around here it doesn't. To be quite
honest I haven't seen a window's box in a couple decades now. Most everyone and their dog is using Android over the last 20 years or so
with the occasional Apple device rearing it's ugly head every so often.

My phone is Android, but that's about as far as I go with Android or Apple products.

In this case that doesn't work given that Old English isn't supported by any translation method that I am aware of.

I searched "translate <whatever tagline I copied>" and one of the first in the list of results was the website they're all listed on. I ended up with all the translations needed there on the site.

Regards,
Nick

... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:115.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderb
* Origin: _thePharcyde distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Nicholas!

I was referring to your use of GUIs and even the possibility of
installing Windows.

Ah! That would have to be whatever windows version running under qemu in xorg. Also it would require a cygwin enviroment.

I searched "translate <whatever tagline I copied>"

Just a standard search then. I thought you might have been referencing Google's trans app which is a commandline based translator using outside servers.

<Esc>:read !trans -no-ansi -V | sed 's/^/ GT> /'

Translate Shell 0.9.7.1

platform Linux
terminal type linux
bi-di emulator [N/A]
gawk (GNU Awk) 5.3.0
fribidi (GNU FriBidi) 1.0.12
audio player [NOT INSTALLED]
terminal pager less
web browser xdg-open
user locale en_CA.utf8 (English)
host language en
source language auto
target language en
translation engine auto
proxy [NONE]
user-agent Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/104.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/104.0.1293.54
ip version [DEFAULT]
theme default
init file [NONE]

Report bugs to: https://github.com/soimort/translate-shell/issues

That is what I deployed in creating the original "Castle Anthrax" FTN compliant MSG. This particular version lists 159 supported language translations;

<Esc>:read !trans -no-ansi -list-languages-english | sed 's/^/ GT> /'

Afrikaans
Albanian
Amharic
Arabic
Armenian
Assamese
Aymara
Azerbaijani
Bambara
Bashkir
Basque
Belarusian
Bengali
Bhojpuri
Bosnian
Bulgarian
Cantonese
Catalan
Cebuano
Chichewa
Chinese (Literary)
Chinese (Simplified)
Chinese (Traditional)
Chuvash
Corsican
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dari
Dhivehi
Dogri
Dutch
Eastern Mari
English
Esperanto
Estonian
Ewe
Faroese
Fijian
Filipino
Finnish
French
French (Canadian)
Frisian
Galician
Georgian
German
Greek
Guarani
Gujarati
Haitian Creole
Hausa
Hawaiian
Hebrew
Hill Mari
Hindi
Hmong
Hungarian
Icelandic
Igbo
Ilocano
Indonesian
Inuinnaqtun
Inuktitut
Inuktitut (Latin)
Irish
Italian
Japanese
Javanese
Kannada
Kazakh
Khmer
Kinyarwanda
Klingon
Konkani
Korean
Krio
Kurdish (Central)
Kurdish (Northern)
Kyrgyz
Lao
Latin
Latvian
Lingala
Lithuanian
Luganda
Luxembourgish
Macedonian
Maithili
Malagasy
Malay
Malayalam
Maltese
Maori
Marathi
Meiteilon
Mizo
Mongolian
Mongolian (Traditional)
Myanmar
Nepali
Norwegian
Odia
Oromo
Papiamento
Pashto
Persian
Polish
Portuguese (Brazilian)
Portuguese (European)
Punjabi
Quechua
Querétaro Otomi
Romanian
Russian
Samoan
Sanskrit
Scots Gaelic
Sepedi
Serbian (Cyrillic)
Serbian (Latin)
Sesotho
Shona
Sindhi
Sinhala
Slovak
Slovenian
Somali
Spanish
Sundanese
Swahili
Swedish
Tahitian
Tajik
Tamil
Tatar
Telugu
Thai
Tibetan
Tigrinya
Tongan
Tsonga
Turkish
Turkmen
Twi
Udmurt
Ukrainian
Upper Sorbian
Urdu
Uyghur
Uzbek
Vietnamese
Welsh
Xhosa
Yakut
Yiddish
Yoruba
Yucatec Maya
Zulu

As you can see there is no support for Old English. :::sigh:::

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o -o o- o- -o -o o- o- -o -o -o o- o- o- /) /) (\ (\ /) /) (\ (\ /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel.
Fate ever goes as it must.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)