Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Nightfox on Wed Jul 15 2020 09:17 pm

i'll just keep running the old one that puts in fully characters when i use the arrow keys.

I had never heard about that bug before.. If you ever see a bug with SlyEdit or something I've written, you can always let me know and I can look into it.

Nightfox

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 08:06 pm

okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
any idea what i can do about that?
i'm running 3.17

instead of the regular interface i'm used to. it's a bunch of \1
code mess

Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you
correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first
time I've heard about this issue from anyone.

https://i.imgur.com/bvP7Oxg.png

I'm not sure what's going on there. I also tried on my BBS with mTelnet and it looks fine to me.

Digital Man - It looks like the latest version of SlyEdit is outputting literal \1 strings for Mro, and most of the color/attribute codes aren't being sent as ANSI. Do you know of any things that might cause that?

Nightfox

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 08:06 pm

Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you
correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first
time I've heard about this issue from anyone.

https://i.imgur.com/bvP7Oxg.png

I just updated the SlyEd173.zip archive - Try downloading it again. I had a look and realized the color configuration files I put in there are for an im-progress version I'm working on to support \1 in those .cfg files rather than the control character. I have replaced those color .cfg files in the archive with ones which should work.

Nightfox

Re: SlyEdit color code issue
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 19 2020 12:36 pm

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 08:06 pm

Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you
correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first
time I've heard about this issue from anyone.

https://i.imgur.com/bvP7Oxg.png

I just updated the SlyEd173.zip archive - Try downloading it again. I had a look and realized the color configuration files I put in there are for an im-progress version I'm working on to support \1 in those .cfg files rather than the control character. I have replaced those color .cfg files in the archive with ones which should work.

okay it works now. i recommend you rename the directories in that archive to mods and ctrl, though
thanks for making the archive!
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: SlyEdit color code issue
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 19 2020 03:55 pm

okay it works now. i recommend you rename the directories in that archive to mods and ctrl, though thanks for making the archive!

No problem.

And it sounded like you were interested in the change subject feature - The hotkey for that is Ctrl-S.

Nightfox

Re: SlyEdit color code issue
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Jul 19 2020 05:53 pm

Re: SlyEdit color code issue
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sun Jul 19 2020 03:55 pm

okay it works now. i recommend you rename the directories in that
archive to mods and ctrl, though thanks for making the archive!

No problem.

And it sounded like you were interested in the change subject feature - The hotkey for that is Ctrl-S.

no, i dont need that. on my bbs is asks me to change the subject before entering the msg. the thing that was bothering me is when i was moving around with arrow keys sometimes it would enter in letters, but with the newer version, that issue is gone.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: This strange world
By: atroxi to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 04:53 am

Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying it.

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I was born around the mid-80s. I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes are quite unweildy, and the way in which the messeges appear in chronological order (in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING) is hilarious... however I still find the whole experience massively endearing.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: SlyEdit color code issue
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sat Jul 18 2020 09:32 pm

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Nightfox on Sat Jul 18 2020 08:06 pm

okay it's not translating the \1X color codes.
any idea what i can do about that?
i'm running 3.17

instead of the regular interface i'm used to. it's a bunch of \1
code mess

Can you show me a screenshot? Because if I understand you
correctly, I've never seen SlyEdit do that. And this is the first
time I've heard about this issue from anyone.

https://i.imgur.com/bvP7Oxg.png

I'm not sure what's going on there. I also tried on my BBS with mTelnet and it looks fine to me.

Digital Man - It looks like the latest version of SlyEdit is outputting literal \1 strings for Mro, and most of the color/attribute codes aren't being sent as ANSI. Do you know of any things that might cause that?

Nope. This seems like the wrong message base to talking about it though.

digital man

Synchronet/BBS Terminology Definition #35:
FTSC = FidoNet Technical Standards Committee
Norco, CA WX: 73.7°F, 59.0% humidity, 0 mph S wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to atroxi on Sat Aug 01 2020 10:13 pm

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I was born around the mid-80s. I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes are

I was born in 1980 and grew up using computers. So it seems strange to hear someone from around the same time never knew about BBSes.. But at the same time, my dad was a computer person, so I learned a lot about computers at a time when I think many people didn't know much about computers. Computers used to be a lot more niche back then.

quite unweildy, and the way in which the messeges appear in chronological order (in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING) is hilarious...

I don't think that's quite unique to BBSes. When I started using the internet in 1995, I used to read newsgroups sometimes, and in a newsgroup reader like Forte Agent, messages in newsgroups were often listed the same way. If you are unfamiliar, you could probably find a copy of Forte Agent or another news reader somewhere and connect it to a Synchronet BBS (Synchronet supports the newsgroup protocol) and see how it works. Many desktop email programs used to also support newsgroups, such as Mozilla Thunderbird (though I'm not sure if it still does).

Nightfox

On 01 Aug 2020, Andeddu said the following...

sure BBSes are quite unweildy, the way in which the messeges appear in chronological order (in no way rel to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING is hilarious...

Couple that with the fact that the subject line almost always has nothing to
do with what is being discussed, and you're right, you have to read
everything to keep up with any given conversation.

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 01:01 am

I don't think that's quite unique to BBSes. When I started using the intern in 1995, I used to read newsgroups sometimes, and in a newsgroup reader like Forte Agent, messages in newsgroups were often listed the same way. If you unfamiliar, you could probably find a copy of Forte Agent or another news reader somewhere and connect it to a Synchronet BBS (Synchronet supports the newsgroup protocol) and see how it works. Many desktop email programs used also support newsgroups, such as Mozilla Thunderbird (though I'm not sure if still does).

Nightfox

Thinderbird supports Usenet groups nowadays. There was a cool Linux Magazine article about it. The guy who wrote it is very handsome and has a very special horse smell.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to atroxi on Sat Aug 01 2020 10:13 pm

(in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING)

Yeah, this is exactly the part that I was also struggling a bit. It takes a while getting used to reading and tracking the discussion down. I find myself using the tree mode often due to that.

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Quoting Andeddu to Atroxi at 08-01-20 22:13 <=-

Re: Re: This strange world
By: atroxi to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 04:53 am

Certainly, I'm a 00s kid and I've certainly never have had the chance to experience BBSes in their heyday, I pretty much got introduced straight into the internet around 2007-2008. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw" presentation as compared to the highly graphic filled, attention-grabbing, internet of today.

Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying it.

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I
was born around the mid-80s. I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes
are quite unweildy, and the way in which the messeges appear in chronological order (in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING) is hilarious...
however I still find the whole experience massively endearing.

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing to
show by topic or other option.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part of
the BBS culture.


[]s │
┌────────────────────────────────────────────── * ─────────────
│ Mauro R. Veiga - abutre.no-ip.org:2323 │
─────│───────────────────────────────────────────────┘


MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... Barney of Borg: Being assimilated is fun!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

---
■ Synchronet ■ Ninho do Abutre 2 BBS - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Re: This strange world
By: Underminer to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 05:54 pm

Not at all. The purpose isn't archive, it's to avoid needing network bandwidth to pull the whole install down for metered or slow connections. For that, it works exactly as intended.

It's working exactly as THEY intended, not as I envisioned. If Steam one day disappeared, our accounts would be worthless.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:21 pm

yeah that's not something i would really want. i really dont like steam. and i dont like the validation shit i get sometimes when i login with what they think is a different computer. it's very annoying.

EA Origin, Epic Games, Uplay and Battle.net are no different to Steam in relation to DRM. Signing up to clients is just a hoop you'll have to jump if you're wanting to play modern games.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 01:01 am

I was born in 1980 and grew up using computers. So it seems strange to hear someone from around the same time never knew about BBSes.. But at the same time, my dad was a computer person, so I learned a lot about computers at a time when I think many people didn't know much about computers. Computers used to be a lot more niche back then.
I don't think that's quite unique to BBSes. When I started using the internet in 1995, I used to read newsgroups sometimes, and in a newsgroup reader like Forte Agent, messages in newsgroups were often listed the same way. If you are unfamiliar, you could probably find a copy of Forte Agent or another news reader somewhere and connect it to a Synchronet BBS (Synchronet supports the newsgroup protocol) and see how it works. Many desktop email programs used to also support newsgroups, such as Mozilla Thunderbird (though I'm not sure if it still does).

I didn't have access to the internet until '97. All I ever knew was the world wide web. I had heard of precursors to the internet such as ARPANET however never paid any heed to the history of computer networks until I became interested in vintage computers.

Around '99 when I became a more casual user, forums were fairly similar in format to today -- with different threads, etc... I had never come across anything similar to BBSes on the world wide web.

I'll take a look into Forte Agent as you've piqued my interest... I have seen newsgroups on Synchronet, with news appearing much like these messages, if that's what you mean.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: This strange world
By: Nightfox to MRO on Sun Aug 02 2020 01:04 am

What is it about Steam that you wouldn't really want it? I think Steam can be fairly handy for what it is. I've bought several games from Steam, and it's convenient to be able to download the games rather than having to go out to a store and buy it (though sometimes I do miss buying PC games in a store). Also, Steam has done some significnat work in bringing PC gaming to Linux.

Nightfox

If you go out to a store and buy games, all you end up with is a Steam code or some other code for a similar client.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Warpslide to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 07:06 am

Couple that with the fact that the subject line almost always has nothing to do with what is being discussed, and you're right, you have to read everything to keep up with any given conversation.

Jay

That's part of the reason I like it so much. I'd normally skip 90% of active threads on forums, whereas with this I feel like I have to read everything just to remain informed.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 02 2020 06:38 pm

I didn't have access to the internet until '97. All I ever knew was the world wide web. I had heard of precursors to the internet such as ARPANET however never paid any heed to the history of computer networks until I became interested in vintage computers.

I could see that happening sometimes. It seemed like computers were more niche back then. Not everyone had a computer at home, though computers were becoming more common.
My dad was always into computers, so I grew up using his computers. I got my own hand-me-down computer, as well as a modem, in 1992, and I started calling BBSes right away. I started my own BBS a couple years later. One time in 1994, I was telling a friend of mine at school that I run a BBS and he said "What's a BBS?". I was a little surprised..

I'll take a look into Forte Agent as you've piqued my interest... I have seen newsgroups on Synchronet, with news appearing much like these messages, if that's what you mean.

"Newsgroup" is just a name for a message area set up on a server using the NNTP protocol. It's much like BBS message forums, except newsgroups were available on the internet, so they were accessible anywhere (as opposed to BBSes back then, which tended to have a lot of local callers due to being used on phone lines).

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 02 2020 06:40 pm

What is it about Steam that you wouldn't really want it? I think
Steam can be fairly handy for what it is. I've bought several games
from Steam, and it's convenient to be able to download the games
rather than having to go out to a store and buy it (though sometimes I
do miss buying PC games in a store). Also, Steam has done some
significnat work in bringing PC gaming to Linux.

If you go out to a store and buy games, all you end up with is a Steam code or some other code for a similar client.

Really? I actually haven't bought physical PC games in a while, so I didn't know that's what they were doing. I figured you could probably still buy some PC games on disc or something, but I guess many PC users these days don't have an optical drive or anything.. A long time ago, I figured the natural progression would be to buy PC games (and movies and music) on USB flash drives, but it seems most people have gone the route of downloading them from the internet.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Warpslide on Sun Aug 02 2020 06:43 pm

That's part of the reason I like it so much. I'd normally skip 90% of active threads on forums, whereas with this I feel like I have to read everything just to remain informed.

You don't have to read everything.. I made my own reader for Synchronet (and Digital Man has made something similar now) where you can list the messages (it will display the subjects and date posted) and you can pick and choose which messages to read. It's still not a fully threaded experience like you might see on an online web forum, but I don't always like having to read every single message. Threaded mode could be made in a reader/lister mod for Synchronet, too. I don't remember offhand now if Digital Man's reader/lister has a threaded mode..

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to MRO on Sun Aug 02 2020 05:47 pm

Re: Re: This strange world
By: MRO to Andeddu on Sat Aug 01 2020 09:21 pm

yeah that's not something i would really want. i really dont like steam. i dont like the validation shit i get sometimes when i login with what th think is a different computer. it's very annoying.

EA Origin, Epic Games, Uplay and Battle.net are no different to Steam in relation to DRM. Signing up to clients is just a hoop you'll have to jump if you're wanting to play modern games.

Which is why I don't play modern games, among other things.

Many old classics are great and don't require you to go through the hassle of dealing with abusive Terms of Service from the game distributor.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Hello Nightfox!

** On Sunday 02.08.20 - 04:01, nightfox wrote to Andeddu:

quite unweildy, and the way in which the messeges appear in
chronological order (in no way related to the topics being discussed
thereby encouraging the user to read EVERYTHING) is hilarious...

I don't think that's quite unique to BBSes. When I started using the internet in 1995, I used to read newsgroups sometimes, and in a
newsgroup reader like Forte Agent, messages in newsgroups were often
listed the same way.

But you could sort the messages by Subj and skip or mark as Read the ones that where likely of no interest. That was much better than reading live
on a BBS.

Before newsgroups were commonplace for me, I joined mailing lists. Sifting through several of them soon became quite tedious though. I was not
versed in sorting emails very well. :(

Today's echos could effectively be a mailing list of their own with a
subject line that includes the echotag. But a reply into a mailing list would need to be massaged to look nicer.

Has anyone experimented with using the mailing-list format to feed
echomail? With some basic filtering on incoming email, it would be pretty easy to park incoming mailing list messages in subfolders.

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Hello Andeddu!

** On Saturday 01.08.20 - 17:13, andeddu wrote to atroxi:

[snip]

.. I do think that there's a certain charm in BBSes, it's more "raw"
presentation as compared to the highly graphic filled, attention-
grabbing, internet of today.

Still getting my grips into the whole thing but so far I'm enjoying
it.

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware
BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I
was born around the mid-80s.

It's probably not strange at all. BBS operators have never really waved
the flag to say "Look over here! I exist too!" A listing into telnetbbsguide might be as far as it goes. :(

I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes are quite unweildy, and the
way in which the messeges appear in chronological order (in no way
related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the user to
read EVERYTHING) is hilarious... however I still find the whole
experience massively endearing.

Messaging live on BBSes has always been awkward (different keyboard
commands from BBS to BBS to navigate the message bases, etc.) An offline method is a user's friend: QWK, nntp, a point program.

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 11:36 am

Has anyone experimented with using the mailing-list format to feed echomail? With some basic filtering on incoming email, it would be pretty easy to park incoming mailing list messages in subfolders.

Interesting. I've never thought about it, but I do have an email parsing system I wrote to handle ticketing for business that might do the trick....
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

On 08-02-20 08:59, Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

Thinderbird supports Usenet groups nowadays. There was a cool Linux Magazine article about it. The guy who wrote it is very handsome and
has a very special horse smell.

Has for years, I used Thunderbird ages aho to test NNTP on my boards. :)


... When a man brings his wife a gift for no reason... there's a reason.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 08:58, Atroxi wrote to Andeddu <=-

@VIA: VERT
Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to atroxi on Sat Aug 01 2020 10:13 pm

(in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the

ser

to read EVERYTHING)

Yeah, this is exactly the part that I was also struggling a bit. It
takes a while getting used to reading and tracking the discussion down.
I find myself using the tree mode often due to that.

I do that in my head, works better than a threaded reader. :D


... hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 09:43, Mauro Veiga wrote to ANDEDDU <=-

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I
was born around the mid-80s. I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes

It's great that BBSs are still being discovered by new people. :)

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing
to
show by topic or other option.

I second the offline reader. It's so liberating to be disconnected from the network to read and post messages, and it's a refreshing change from sluggish web forums (most are a 200mS+ RTT from here, which really hurts with HTTP(S)).

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part

Collecting taglines is part of the fun of BBSing. My original talgine file had some rather raunchy taglines. :)


... This tagline is identical to the one you are reading.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 18:38, Andeddu wrote to Nightfox <=-

I didn't have access to the internet until '97. All I ever knew was the world wide web. I had heard of precursors to the internet such as
ARPANET however never paid any heed to the history of computer networks until I became interested in vintage computers.

In contrast, I always had an interest in communication technology - phones, intercoms, radio, computer networking, and of course, modems and BBSs. Got my ham ticket in 1989, started BBSing in 1991, still do both today, though I did have a 15-20 year break from BBSing, but ham radio continued right through to this day (and is now a godsend during the pandemic). BBSs rekindled my interest in computers, by giving me a practical communication use for them. :)

Around '99 when I became a more casual user, forums were fairly similar
in format to today -- with different threads, etc... I had never come across anything similar to BBSes on the world wide web.

Yeah forums started a bit before then. Hated them back them, still hate them now. Much prefer a BBS for messaging.

I'll take a look into Forte Agent as you've piqued my interest... I
have seen newsgroups on Synchronet, with news appearing much like these messages, if that's what you mean.

Thunderbird will do the trick, if you already have it. But on Synchronet boards, you'll be simply accessing the same content, just using a different means. The news posts you see on here are actually gated by Synchronet to this network.


... 300 baud makes you wanna get out and shoot it.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 18:43, Andeddu wrote to Warpslide <=-

That's part of the reason I like it so much. I'd normally skip 90% of active threads on forums, whereas with this I feel like I have to read everything just to remain informed.

Py's because I like to read everything that I find BBSs much more of a pleasure. Forums are just too clumsy and slow to do that. And thread drift on them as as bad as on BBSs, so you miss out on mislabelled posts on forums that you would read on here.


... I watch what I eat... from the plate to the mouth.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 15:04, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

I could see that happening sometimes. It seemed like computers were
more niche back then. Not everyone had a computer at home, though computers were becoming more common. My dad was always into computers,

I was an early adopter. My parents bought a computer so I could do university assignments at home, which I made good use of. Dad tried to learn how to use it, but couldn't get his head around it. That was in 1986. But when I left home in 1991, I built an XT out of scrounged parts. Started BBSing at 300 bps using a friend's dumb modem, until I bought a modem at the end of the hear for a slab of beer. That upgraded me to 1200, and 2400 followed shorly after. :)

so I grew up using his computers. I got my own hand-me-down computer,
as well as a modem, in 1992, and I started calling BBSes right away. I started my own BBS a couple years later. One time in 1994, I was
telling a friend of mine at school that I run a BBS and he said "What's
a BBS?". I was a little surprised..

A lot of people weren't aware of BBSs. I was very heavily involved by 1994, having been a sysop for a couple of years. Later that year, I got on the Internet, discovered Gopher, email, newsgroups and IRC, and never looked back. The Internet did help me with some things that needed the wider scope. But my heart remained with BBSs, and I stayed in the scene for several more years. Even after the BBS closed down, my own point system and Internet gateway survived until I got broadband in 2001

I'll take a look into Forte Agent as you've piqued my interest... I have seen newsgroups on Synchronet, with news appearing much like these messages, if that's what you mean.

"Newsgroup" is just a name for a message area set up on a server using
the NNTP protocol. It's much like BBS message forums, except
newsgroups were available on the internet, so they were accessible anywhere (as opposed to BBSes back then, which tended to have a lot of local callers due to being used on phone lines).

Newsgroups were great back then, though BBSs always had a closer community feel about them.


... Rock is Dead. Long live Paper and Scissors!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-02-20 11:36, Ogg wrote to All <=-

Before newsgroups were commonplace for me, I joined mailing lists.
Sifting through several of them soon became quite tedious though. I
was not versed in sorting emails very well. :(

I'm still on a bunch of lists. Filters and folders are great for managing
hem.

Today's echos could effectively be a mailing list of their own with a subject line that includes the echotag. But a reply into a mailing
list would need to be massaged to look nicer.

Synchronet can gate mailing lists into an echo.

Has anyone experimented with using the mailing-list format to feed echomail? With some basic filtering on incoming email, it would be
pretty easy to park incoming mailing list messages in subfolders.

Yes, I have a couple on this BBS, as well as a mailing list that I host on the board. Look up listgate.js and listserver.js. :)


... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 00:21, Underminer wrote to Ogg <=-

@VIA: VERT/UNDRMINE
Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 11:36 am

Has anyone experimented with using the mailing-list format to feed echomail? With some basic filtering on incoming email, it would be pretty easy to park incoming mailing list messages in subfolders.

Interesting. I've never thought about it, but I do have an email
parsing system I wrote to handle ticketing for business that might do
the trick.... ---

Synchronet has it all built in. :)


... All true wisdom is found in taglines. :)
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Vk3jed to Atroxi on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:21 pm

On 08-02-20 08:58, Atroxi wrote to Andeddu <=-

@VIA: VERT
Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to atroxi on Sat Aug 01 2020 10:13 pm

(in no way related to the topics being discussed thereby encouraging the

ser

to read EVERYTHING)

Yeah, this is exactly the part that I was also struggling a bit. It takes a while getting used to reading and tracking the discussion down. I find myself using the tree mode often due to that.

I do that in my head, works better than a threaded reader. :D

... hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?

Haha! That's awesome. :-D

---
"Whatever happens, happens."
|--------------------------------------|
-+- a small site: atroxi.neocities.org -+-
|--------------------------------------|
---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Atroxi to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 08:58 am

Yeah, this is exactly the part that I was also struggling a bit. It takes a while getting used to reading and tracking the discussion down. I find myself using the tree mode often due to that.

I quite enjoy it. I'll grab a coffee in the mornings I am off work and read through the comments section. I am learning about things I am ignorant about, such as Linux, as I am reading through ALL posts, even those that do not relate to me. On a modern forum, I'd simply click on the threads I am already interested in and ignore all the rest.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Vk3jed to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:47 pm

I was an early adopter. My parents bought a computer so I could do university assignments at home, which I made good use of. Dad tried to learn how to use it, but couldn't get his head around it. That was in 1986. But when I left home in 1991, I built an XT out of scrounged parts. Started BBSing at 300 bps using a friend's dumb modem, until I bought a modem at the end of the hear for a slab of beer. That upgraded me to 1200, and 2400 followed shorly after. :)

That's cool.
My dad was a computer guy, so I actually initially learned a lot of what I know about computers from him. He had told me about using his TRS-80 & such in the late 70s before I was born. I have a photo of me as a baby with my dad in front of his TRS-80, with his box of 5.25" floppy disks and acoustic coupler modem.. :) I got my own hand-me-down computer in 1992, along with a 2400 baud modem, which I was thankful for. I started calling BBSes immediately, and I started running my own BBS in 1994. I used my computer for high school English papers, and I had upgraded my computer a couple times when I was in high school too. I got a copy of Microsoft Encarta CD-ROM encyclopedia (1994 or 1995 edition) which I had used as a research source for some papers in high school too.

Newsgroups were great back then, though BBSs always had a closer community feel about them.

I agree.

Nightfox

Quoting Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga at 08-03-20 19:27 <=-

On 08-02-20 09:43, Mauro Veiga wrote to ANDEDDU <=-

I am a total newbie to this whole scene too. I was completely unaware BBSes existed until around April 2020, which is a little strange as I
was born around the mid-80s. I am here for the charm too... sure BBSes

It's great that BBSs are still being discovered by new people. :)

:-))
Retrocomputing has attracted some people to bbsing. Recently a user
access my system with a PC-XT with FreeDOS and mTCP. And other user
never was accessed BBS before.

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing
to
show by topic or other option.

I second the offline reader. It's so liberating to be disconnected
from the network to read and post messages, and it's a refreshing
change from sluggish web forums (most are a 200mS+ RTT from here, which really hurts with HTTP(S)).

Yes! And the text screen with ANSI colors is a pleasure for the
eyes.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part

Collecting taglines is part of the fun of BBSing. My original talgine file had some rather raunchy taglines. :)

Taglines and ASCII signatures are fun. Are part of the great
cultural stuff of BBSs.



[]s │
┌────────────────────────────────────────────── * ─────────────
│ Mauro R. Veiga - abutre.no-ip.org:2323 │
─────│───────────────────────────────────────────────┘


MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... "Engineering is easy, it's reading Klingon that's hard" Scotty
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

---
■ Synchronet ■ Ninho do Abutre 2 BBS - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 03:06 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 02 2020 06:40 pm

What is it about Steam that you wouldn't really want it? I think
Steam can be fairly handy for what it is. I've bought several games
from Steam, and it's convenient to be able to download the games
rather than having to go out to a store and buy it (though sometimes I
do miss buying PC games in a store). Also, Steam has done some
significnat work in bringing PC gaming to Linux.

If you go out to a store and buy games, all you end up with is a Steam code or some other code for a similar client.

Really? I actually haven't bought physical PC games in a while, so I didn't
anything.. A long time ago, I figured the natural progression would be to

Nightfox

Games and other software still can be pruchased on DVD, but the titles on the shelf are becoming rarer. In some cases you're buying a box of books or documentation and an activation code. Otherwise it's digital downloads with activation codes emailed to you.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 10:45 am

Games and other software still can be pruchased on DVD, but the titles on the shelf are becoming rarer. In some cases you're buying a box of books or documentation and an activation code. Otherwise it's digital downloads with activation codes emailed to you.

One thing I've noticed is I think digital downloads can make it difficult to resell games. I built a new PC last year, and the GPU came with a couple free digital-download games. I wasn't really interested in those games, so I've tried to sell the activation codes (which I haven't used), but I didn't get any buyers. I still haven't activated them, and hopefully they will still work.. I'd be curious to see if anyone would be interested in them. (If anyone is curious, the games are Control and Wolfenstein: Youngblood.)

Nightfox

Re: BBSes today
By: Mauro Veiga to ANDEDDU on Sun Aug 02 2020 09:43 am

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing to
show by topic or other option.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part of
the BBS culture.

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

In any case, I am using a vintage '84 Mac to BBS so I don't think there are any compatible offline readers for it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 03:04 pm

I could see that happening sometimes. It seemed like computers were more niche back then. Not everyone had a computer at home, though computers were becoming more common.
My dad was always into computers, so I grew up using his computers. I got my own hand-me-down computer, as well as a modem, in 1992, and I started calling BBSes right away. I started my own BBS a couple years later. One time in 1994, I was telling a friend of mine at school that I run a BBS and he said "What's a BBS?". I was a little surprised..

My dad always had a computer however those computers were offline terminals. I only ever played games... so not much has changed for me since then :P.

That's pretty awesome you had a modem back in '92... I remember when I was around 12 running up a massive 70 pound phone bill and being subsequently banned from the internet for the rest of the year.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 03:06 pm

Really? I actually haven't bought physical PC games in a while, so I didn't know that's what they were doing. I figured you could probably still buy some PC games on disc or something, but I guess many PC users these days don't have an optical drive or anything.. A long time ago, I figured the natural progression would be to buy PC games (and movies and music) on USB flash drives, but it seems most people have gone the route of downloading them from the internet.

Nightfox

All you get is a product box with a serial code voucher inside, no disc. There's literally no point in going to brick and morter shops now as a PC gamer. I can't remember the last time I saw a machine with an optical drive. I had one for my Alienware M11x laptop back in 2010-2013 because some games still had physical releases... it was a USB optical drive as the laptop didn't have one. I haven't used one since.

Internet connections are so quick now that there's no point in physical media. I can download a game faster than it takes to install it on an optical drive. I still prefer physical games on my consoles though.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 05:10 pm

Many old classics are great and don't require you to go through the hassle of dealing with abusive Terms of Service from the game distributor.

There is no hassle. You sign up for a client in the first instance, agree to the ToS and that's it, you'll never have to agree to it again. When you're logged in, purchase the game of your choosing, download it, and you're done. I won't defend DRM however all publishers go through online clients now so either you sign-up or you'll never get to play modern PC games.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 02 2020 11:56 am

It's probably not strange at all. BBS operators have never really waved
the flag to say "Look over here! I exist too!" A listing into telnetbbsguide might be as far as it goes. :(
Messaging live on BBSes has always been awkward (different keyboard
commands from BBS to BBS to navigate the message bases, etc.) An offline method is a user's friend: QWK, nntp, a point program.

I think by the time I got online back in '97, the hayday of BBSes had come and gone. I was using the likes of ICQ, mIRC, etc.., for chatting along with web forums.

I am using 80s tech in the form of a Mac to BBS on... perhaps once the novelty wares off *and if I am still invested in BBSes* I shall install these QoL programmes onto my PC.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Vk3jed to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:33 pm

In contrast, I always had an interest in communication technology - phones, intercoms, radio, computer networking, and of course, modems and BBSs. Got my ham ticket in 1989, started BBSing in 1991, still do both today, though I did have a 15-20 year break from BBSing, but ham radio continued right through to this day (and is now a godsend during the pandemic). BBSs rekindled my interest in computers, by giving me a practical communication use for them. :)

I had no idea what Ham Radio was until a week ago. I checked out a video on YouTube and saw a guy send a message on his radio, not dissimilar to a BBS. Interesting stuff!

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:19 pm

Internet connections are so quick now that there's no point in physical medi I can download a game faster than it takes to install it on an optical drive still prefer physical games on my consoles though.

First worlders are usually surprised when they are told that the consumption of optical emdia, worldwide, is still ON THE RISE. It might surprise you, but most of the population on this ball of mud has no fiber connection to his house.

Besides, I love stashing the DVDs that come with Linux Magazine. When I need to fix something it is much faster to grab a DVD from the DVD pile than to download a rescue system. Specially if the machine you'd use for downloading the rescue system is the one that is broken and if need of a rescue.


--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:37 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 05:10 pm

Many old classics are great and don't require you to go through the hassl of dealing with abusive Terms of Service from the game distributor.

There is no hassle. You sign up for a client in the first instance, agree to the ToS and that's it, you'll never have to agree to it again. When you're logged in, purchase the game of your choosing, download it, and you're done. won't defend DRM however all publishers go through online clients now so eit you sign-up or you'll never get to play modern PC games.

Sorry, but you are not selling the idea to me.

There are one player games that you play with LAG because they require connectivity to an auth server.

Downloading an extra piece of software (ie a game store client) is a hassle in itself since it is one extra step you have to take, plus you give a lot of power over your game library to a third party. Sometimes, up to the point that you are only able to play the game as long as the third party allows it.

There are distributors taking content away from games you have purchased (for example, music) due to licensing deadlines and the like. The game experience is purposedly diminished by the game distributor.

Games are turning more and more into an experience about the game ecosystem (DLC markets, accomplishments etc) than about the game themselves at times.

As I said, I am so happy with old games that I don't need to sign up to this distribution paradigm to have fun. I don't dislike the idea of game store clients, but I oppose the idea of the gamer ecosystem we have, with the passion of a Doom player who killed a Spiderdemon with a chainsaw.


--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Andeddu wrote to Mauro Veiga <=-

Re: BBSes today
By: Mauro Veiga to ANDEDDU on Sun Aug 02 2020 09:43 am

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing to
show by topic or other option.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part of
the BBS culture.

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority
of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I
understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

In any case, I am using a vintage '84 Mac to BBS so I don't think there are any compatible offline readers for it.

For me, I prefer using my own editor (Emacs) instead of the one the BBS provides. Different BBS's have different editors, so using MultiMail makes things consistent. Secondly, I find it easier to browse through the subscribed groups and go back and forth between messages. Again, each BBS had a different way to browse messages, some good, some not so good. With Multimail, its always the same.

It isn't necessary, and you can definately do it while logged in, but I find it nicer to use Multimail. Lastly, if I stop and walk away from the computer, I don't get disconnected. Most BBS's have short session timeouts, so you get disconnected if you are not constantly typing away.


... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:12 pm

That's pretty awesome you had a modem back in '92... I remember when I was around 12 running up a massive 70 pound phone bill and being subsequently banned from the internet for the rest of the year.

I think it's different in different parts of the world, but around that time when I got my PC, local calls were free. I rarely made any long-distance calls, so I usually didn't increase the phone bill. I was grateful that my parents got a 2nd phone line for me to use with my computer & modem so I wouldn't tie up the main phone line (also, sometimes they said my modem would apparently answer the phone occasionally when it wasn't supposed to..). And when I got my own phone line for my PC, I decided to make good use of it and run my own BBS.

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:19 pm

Internet connections are so quick now that there's no point in physical media. I can download a game faster than it takes to install it on an optical drive. I still prefer physical games on my consoles though.

I originally figured the natural progression would probably be to buy games, movies, and music on USB flash drives. But it seems that didn't happen.. Not everyone has a fast internet connection though.

Nightfox

Hello Andeddu!

** On Monday 03.08.20 - 10:51, andeddu wrote to Mauro Veiga:

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority
of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I
understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line
which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

One reason would be to remove the pressure of being constantly connected
to the BBS, and you can take all the time you want to write a message.

In any case, I am using a vintage '84 Mac to BBS so I don't think
there are any compatible offline readers for it.

Look around. Ask around.

Alternatively, maybe you can utilize the NNTP approach.

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Ogg on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:46 pm

I am using 80s tech in the form of a Mac to BBS on... perhaps once the novelty wares off *and if I am still invested in BBSes* I shall install these QoL programmes onto my PC.

I always used PCs back in the day, so that's where my old BBS nostalgia is. My favorite communications programs back then were Telemate and Telix for DOS.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Vk3jed on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:21 pm

I had no idea what Ham Radio was until a week ago. I checked out a video on YouTube and saw a guy send a message on his radio, not dissimilar to a BBS. Interesting stuff!

I find that a bit unusual, as HAM radio has been around for decades. HAM radio is one of the types of mobile/walkie-talkie radios you may have seen some people using in their car/truck, or desk radios you may have seen people using, similar to CB (citizen's band) radio. My dad is a HAM radio operator though, so it's something I grew up hearing about. I've thought about getting a HAM radio license, but I just haven't studied for it or taken the tests yet.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Mon Aug 03 2020 11:12 pm

In any case, I am using a vintage '84 Mac to BBS so I don't think
there are any compatible offline readers for it.

Look around. Ask around.
Alternatively, maybe you can utilize the NNTP approach.

Sounds like it might be playing with retro tech that got him into the BBS Scene. I'm sure there's an offline reader somewhere that might work, and might be fun to track down, but modern solutions probably defeat the purpose for him :)
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

On 08-03-20 03:59, Atroxi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah, this is exactly the part that I was also struggling a bit. It takes a while getting used to reading and tracking the discussion down. I find myself using the tree mode often due to that.

I do that in my head, works better than a threaded reader. :D

Haha, it's a quirk of mine, comes in handy on BBSs. :)


... I predict that today will be remembered until tomorrow!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 09:18, Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

That's cool.
My dad was a computer guy, so I actually initially learned a lot of
what I know about computers from him. He had told me about using his TRS-80 & such in the late 70s before I was born. I have a photo of me

I was about 10 in the late 70s, and remember drooling over the TRS-80 in a catalogue at the time. :)

as a baby with my dad in front of his TRS-80, with his box of 5.25"
floppy disks and acoustic coupler modem.. :) I got my own hand-me-down computer in 1992, along with a 2400 baud modem, which I was thankful
for. I started calling BBSes immediately, and I started running my own BBS in 1994. I used my computer for high school English papers, and I
had upgraded my computer a couple times when I was in high school too.
I got a copy of Microsoft Encarta CD-ROM encyclopedia (1994 or 1995 edition) which I had used as a research source for some papers in high school too.

I had to wait until I left home to get on BBSs. I lived in a small town, and every BBS at the time would have been a long distance call, and modems were expensive. Besides, I wouldn't have been populat typing up the phone line for ages. :D I didn't even get to touch a computer until Year 9, when there was only 1 Apple II for the entire school of 900+. The following year, I started learning BASIC. We had to write our code on cards (which used a lead pencil to mark up the code), then queue to run them through the computer. If we were lucky, our program loaded and ran, but normally, one of the cards would misread, and we'd have to go back, fix it and rejoin the queue. Or there was a bug that had to be fixed, before trying again. :)

The following year, there were half a dozen Apples, and we were able to work on them in pairs. :)


... A program is used to turn data into error messages.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 10:56, Mauro Veiga wrote to VK3JED <=-

:-))
Retrocomputing has attracted some people to bbsing. Recently a
user
access my system with a PC-XT with FreeDOS and mTCP. And other
user
never was accessed BBS before.

Urk, your reader seems to put hard CRs into your message text. :/ But yeah, that's cool. :) Would be more points for using a modem emulator and a serial link. :)

Yes! And the text screen with ANSI colors is a pleasure for the
eyes.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part

Taglines were always a big part of my BBSing. :)

Collecting taglines is part of the fun of BBSing. My original talgine file had some rather raunchy taglines. :)

Taglines and ASCII signatures are fun. Are part of the great
cultural stuff of BBSs.

Indeed. :)

... "Engineering is easy, it's reading Klingon that's hard" Scotty

Haha yep - ST IV - The Voyage Home. :)


... What do you mean off topic??!!! There's a topic?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 19:21, Andeddu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I had no idea what Ham Radio was until a week ago. I checked out a
video on YouTube and saw a guy send a message on his radio, not
dissimilar to a BBS. Interesting stuff!

Among the many thing we can do! :)


... Not enough mail? Here, let me help...
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 15:51, Andeddu wrote to Mauro Veiga <=-

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority
of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I
understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

A better interface, and..... TAGLINES! :D


... Silence cannot be misquoted.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-03-20 22:19, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

I find that a bit unusual, as HAM radio has been around for decades.
HAM radio is one of the types of mobile/walkie-talkie radios you may
have seen some people using in their car/truck, or desk radios you may have seen people using, similar to CB (citizen's band) radio. My dad
is a HAM radio operator though, so it's something I grew up hearing
about. I've thought about getting a HAM radio license, but I just
haven't studied for it or taken the tests yet.

You should, it's a great isolation buster during a pandemic! :) And with today's networked modes, you don't need much hardware to reach someone like me. :)


... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Quoting Andeddu to Mauro Veiga at 08-03-20 15:51 <=-

Re: BBSes today
By: Mauro Veiga to ANDEDDU on Sun Aug 02 2020 09:43 am

Try to use an offline QWK reader like Multimail or Bluewave. You
download a QWK package and read / write messages offline choosing to
show by topic or other option.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part of
the BBS culture.

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority
of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I

Many other features for reading / writing, choice editor, managing
and organizing messages that don't exist when reading online.

understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

In the beginning, offline readers were created to help with less use
of the phone line. But developers saw the opportunity to offer many
more features to offline readers and made them great tools. So much
so that even today in the Telnet world many use them and all systems
have a QWK port.

In any case, I am using a vintage '84 Mac to BBS so I don't think
there are any compatible offline readers for it.

There were offline readers for old Macs and Apples. In the 90s, I
had a friend who used an offline reader called Alice4Mac.



[]'s
│
─────────── Mauro R. Veiga ─ abutre.no-ip.org:2323 ──────── * ──────
│

MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... There's no place like 127.0.0.1
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

---
■ Synchronet ■ Ninho do Abutre 2 BBS - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Moondog on Mon Aug 03 2020 01:16 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 10:45 am

Games and other software still can be pruchased on DVD, but the titles the shelf are becoming rarer. In some cases you're buying a box of book or documentation and an activation code. Otherwise it's digital downloa with activation codes emailed to you.

One thing I've noticed is I think digital downloads can make it difficult to vation codes (which I haven't used), but I didn't get any buyers. I still h tein: Youngblood.)

Nightfox

Games tied to one account profile can be a pain. I've heard of buyers of gaming consoles getting burned while buying a game console loaded with games from the previous owner, and none can be accessed under the new owner's profile. Back in the Ipod days I recall people asking me why the music disappeared from the player their friend or sibling downloaded. I yold them it's there, but encrypted so only a certain account can hear it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:12 pm

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 02 2020 03:04 pm

I could see that happening sometimes. It seemed like computers were more niche back then. Not everyone had a computer at home, though computers w becoming more common.
My dad was always into computers, so I grew up using his computers. I go my own hand-me-down computer, as well as a modem, in 1992, and I started calling BBSes right away. I started my own BBS a couple years later. On time in 1994, I was telling a friend of mine at school that I run a BBS a he said "What's a BBS?". I was a little surprised..

My dad always had a computer however those computers were offline terminals. only ever played games... so not much has changed for me since then :P.

That's pretty awesome you had a modem back in '92... I remember when I was around 12 running up a massive 70 pound phone bill and being subsequently banned from the internet for the rest of the year.

If it weren't for several local BBS' in my local calling zone, I would've rarely dialed in. When Juno mail came out, I had to dial a long distance number, but that was only for downloading the mail rather than reading it online.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 04:25 pm

First worlders are usually surprised when they are told that the consumption of optical emdia, worldwide, is still ON THE RISE. It might surprise you, but most of the population on this ball of mud has no fiber connection to his house.

I understand where you're coming from, but what I have will soon be available to everyone. I was able to download a 37GB game earlier today in around 40 minutes -- that's less time than it takes for my PS4 to install a game from a Blu-Ray! 5G absolutely dwarfs those download speeds which is pretty crazy if you think about it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 04:39 pm

Sorry, but you are not selling the idea to me.

There are one player games that you play with LAG because they require connectivity to an auth server.

Downloading an extra piece of software (ie a game store client) is a hassle in itself since it is one extra step you have to take, plus you give a lot of power over your game library to a third party. Sometimes, up to the point that you are only able to play the game as long as the third party allows it.

There are distributors taking content away from games you have purchased (for example, music) due to licensing deadlines and the like. The game experience is purposedly diminished by the game distributor.

Games are turning more and more into an experience about the game ecosystem (DLC markets, accomplishments etc) than about the game themselves at times.

As I said, I am so happy with old games that I don't need to sign up to this distribution paradigm to have fun. I don't dislike the idea of game store clients, but I oppose the idea of the gamer ecosystem we have, with the passion of a Doom player who killed a Spiderdemon with a chainsaw.

I admire your dedication to your principles. I, however, refuse to miss out on all the fine graphical experiences the current, and next-generation, have to offer. I disagree with the current paradigm which essentially results in the consumer purchasing and, for all intents and purposes, renting the games they buy. Once the Steam servers shut down, I will have lost my entire gaming library. That means I never really "owned" them in the first place.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Tue Aug 04 2020 10:59 am

Games tied to one account profile can be a pain. I've heard of buyers of gaming consoles getting burned while buying a game console loaded with games from the previous owner, and none can be accessed under the new owner's profile. Back in the Ipod days I recall people asking me why the music disappeared from the player their friend or sibling downloaded. I yold them it's there, but encrypted so only a certain account can hear it.

That's interesting about the music.. I haven't run into that issue since I've only ever bought 1 or 2 songs that had DRM, and usually I use (DRM-free) MP3s. I haven't sold any music along with any of my media players though.

Nightfox

Hello Underminer!

** On Tuesday 04.08.20 - 02:59, underminer wrote to Ogg:

Alternatively, maybe you can utilize the NNTP approach.

Sounds like it might be playing with retro tech that got him into the
BBS Scene. I'm sure there's an offline reader somewhere that might
work, and might be fun to track down, but modern solutions probably
defeat the purpose for him :)

NNTP has been around from the mid to late 80's to make it just about as
old as his '84 Mac. ;)

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Mauro Veiga on Mon Aug 03 2020 03:51 pm

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I understood,

they just consider it more feature rich.
i prefer using my bbs as a reader and writer.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Ogg on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:46 pm

I think by the time I got online back in '97, the hayday of BBSes had come and gone. I was using the likes of ICQ, mIRC, etc.., for chatting along

nope, that was what many call 'the third wave'
that's when it was super popular with new blood for a short while before it fizzed out.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Tue Aug 04 2020 07:20 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 04:25 pm

First worlders are usually surprised when they are told that the consumpt of optical emdia, worldwide, is still ON THE RISE. It might surprise you, but most of the population on this ball of mud has no fiber connection to his house.

I understand where you're coming from, but what I have will soon be availabl to everyone. I was able to download a 37GB game earlier today in around 40 minutes -- that's less time than it takes for my PS4 to install a game from Blu-Ray! 5G absolutely dwarfs those download speeds which is pretty crazy if you think about it.

Look at all those ads for Hughesnet and notice how Dish and DirecTV still
have a large customer base. Due to the size of the US, there are more locations than people realize that have limited or no choices for wired or wi reless broadband.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Tue Aug 04 2020 07:28 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 04:39 pm

Sorry, but you are not selling the idea to me.

There are one player games that you play with LAG because they require connectivity to an auth server.

Downloading an extra piece of software (ie a game store client) is a hass in itself since it is one extra step you have to take, plus you give a lo of power over your game library to a third party. Sometimes, up to the po that you are only able to play the game as long as the third party allows it.

There are distributors taking content away from games you have purchased (for example, music) due to licensing deadlines and the like. The game experience is purposedly diminished by the game distributor.

Games are turning more and more into an experience about the game ecosyst (DLC markets, accomplishments etc) than about the game themselves at time

As I said, I am so happy with old games that I don't need to sign up to t distribution paradigm to have fun. I don't dislike the idea of game store clients, but I oppose the idea of the gamer ecosystem we have, with the passion of a Doom player who killed a Spiderdemon with a chainsaw.

I admire your dedication to your principles. I, however, refuse to miss out all the fine graphical experiences the current, and next-generation, have to offer. I disagree with the current paradigm which essentially results in the consumer purchasing and, for all intents and purposes, renting the games the buy. Once the Steam servers shut down, I will have lost my entire gaming library. That means I never really "owned" them in the first place.

Due to DRM, there may be cultural works that may not be easily recoverable in the future without preseverationists creating workarounds to access r bypass oolder protection scheme. Imagine a library full of books, and no one can access them because the guy who owned the key threw it away when he retired.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Quoting Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga at 08-04-20 20:50 <=-

On 08-03-20 10:56, Mauro Veiga wrote to VK3JED <=-

:-))
Retrocomputing has attracted some people to bbsing. Recently a
user
access my system with a PC-XT with FreeDOS and mTCP. And other
user
never was accessed BBS before.

Urk, your reader seems to put hard CRs into your message text. :/ But yeah, that's cool. :) Would be more points for using a modem emulator
and a serial link. :)

Yes! The hard CRs probably was the Boxer/DOS 7.0b. A great editor
that match fine with Bluewave.

Yes! And the text screen with ANSI colors is a pleasure for the
eyes.

It is a new step in the BBS experience where you can develop ASCII
signatures and tagline files. Things that have always been part

Taglines were always a big part of my BBSing. :)

Me too since 90's. :-)

... "Engineering is easy, it's reading Klingon that's hard" Scotty

Haha yep - ST IV - The Voyage Home. :)

Great movie.


Klingon Bird of Prey - B'Rel Class

_ ________
_,-'|`||||||||_\___ _,-,_
| /_`-'||||||||' \\-____/_ __o`-,
|[__<|_|||||||| -----.______(=====/
|_\ \------'\____/--------\_,-'
`\`. \-'
\ \ \
`\`. \`
\ `-.__\
\______\
| ___\
\(___======][]
`--"

24
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... Captain, a Klingon does NOT play Tetris.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

---
■ Synchronet ■ Ninho do Abutre 2 BBS - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Nightfox wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I got a copy of Microsoft Encarta CD-ROM encyclopedia (1994 or 1995 edition) which I had used as a research source for some papers in high school too.

There was a park in the SOMA neighborhood of San Francisco called
South Park, that was a little urban park. A street encircles the park,
bordered by old victorian houses and industrial warehouses.

It got to be known as "Multimedia Gulch" in the early '90s, and a
couple of early digital media companies popped up along the park.

One of the early ones was Vivid Media. I had a bunch of friends who
worked there, and this was early on in the internet era, when people
had 1 work address and most people didn't have internet at home (or
they had dialup)

People who left the company still kept their web pages at http://www.vivid.com/~username and their email addresses. They
underwent a hostile takeover by one of their competitors, who promptly
dumped the company name and the domain name.

Vivid Studios, the porn site, took over vivid.com, and people's legacy
web sites redirected to the home page of a porn company.

Aside: we forget how early porn was on the internet - long before we
were. My wife worked at a webcasting company from 1999 to 2016. They
started off as a streaming news site with their own newsroom and
journalists, and in the early days most of the engineering talent
came from the "adult entertainment" sector.





... Remove specifics and convert to ambiguities
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Andeddu wrote to Mauro Veiga <=-

What's the reason for someone today using a QWK reader as the majority
of BBSers are on Telnet and not utilising dial-up modems? As I
understood, someone in the 80s or 90s would tie up the phone line which would necessitate the use of an offline reader... but this is no longer true. I am just curious :P.

1. Can use a standard text editor to create replies/posts.
2. Can "look ahead" and see if someone else has already responded to
a technical question.
3. Search/Replace
4. Momentum - I've been using a QWK reader since 1992.
5. The ability to skip around message areas.
6. Signature files - while you can do them with online editors, it's
easier with an OLR.
7. Same interface, different BBSes.




... Remove ambiguities and convert to specifics
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 01:16 am

it nicer to use Multimail. Lastly, if I stop and walk away from the computer, I don't get disconnected. Most BBS's have short session timeouts, so you get disconnected if you are not constantly typing away.

Ah, I see. I have had this happen before a number of times. I go away to do a quick job and return to see the words "NO CARRIER". They sure don't give you much time to idle. This should probably be extended as most BBSes have 10+ nodes.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:07 pm

I think it's different in different parts of the world, but around that time when I got my PC, local calls were free. I rarely made any long-distance calls, so I usually didn't increase the phone bill. I was grateful that my parents got a 2nd phone line for me to use with my computer & modem so I wouldn't tie up the main phone line (also, sometimes they said my modem would apparently answer the phone occasionally when it wasn't supposed to..). And when I got my own phone line for my PC, I decided to make good use of it and run my own BBS.

I got caught up playing games on MSN The Zone. I had a minor addiction to playing Kingpin: Life of Crime online and ended up going waaay over the time limit... we used to get charged an obscene amount per minute of online use.

I don't think we ever had local calls for free over here. I doubt I would have noticed anyway as I was never involved in any chat community around that time & I doubt there were any local gaming servers I could log into as online gaming back then was still in its infancy.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:08 pm

I originally figured the natural progression would probably be to buy games, movies, and music on USB flash drives. But it seems that didn't happen.. Not everyone has a fast internet connection though.

There are still post codes in the UK which don't appear to have access to super fast internet. I fear a little for those people come the release of next-gen consoles. I have seen game patches hitting over 100gb in titles such as Gears of War 4 and Call of Duty (2020) which is pretty obscene. I don't think we should just disregard people who do not have access to high-speed internet.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Aug 04 2020 07:58 am

One of the early ones was Vivid Media. I had a bunch of friends who
worked there, and this was early on in the internet era, when people
had 1 work address and most people didn't have internet at home (or
they had dialup)

People who left the company still kept their web pages at http://www.vivid.com/~username and their email addresses. They
underwent a hostile takeover by one of their competitors, who promptly dumped the company name and the domain name.

Vivid Studios, the porn site, took over vivid.com, and people's legacy
web sites redirected to the home page of a porn company.

hah.. That's funny.

Aside: we forget how early porn was on the internet - long before we
were. My wife worked at a webcasting company from 1999 to 2016. They started off as a streaming news site with their own newsroom and journalists, and in the early days most of the engineering talent
came from the "adult entertainment" sector.

Yeah, porn has been around since the BBS days..

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 02:59 pm

I don't think we ever had local calls for free over here. I doubt I would have noticed anyway as I was never involved in any chat community around that time & I doubt there were any local gaming servers I could log into as online gaming back then was still in its infancy.

It wasn't just chat & games. In those days, I spent a lot of time looking for games, PC utilities, and other files to download from BBSes, and at 2400 baud, a ~200KB file could take about 15-20 minutes to download. And of course it would take even longer if you had a slower connection. I downloaded files quite a bit back then. I used chat on some BBSes sometimes, but I actually never got much into BBS door games back then.

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 03:03 pm

There are still post codes in the UK which don't appear to have access to super fast internet. I fear a little for those people come the release of next-gen consoles. I have seen game patches hitting over 100gb in titles such as Gears of War 4 and Call of Duty (2020) which is pretty obscene. I don't think we should just disregard people who do not have access to high-speed internet.

I agree. Some areas just don't have high-speed internet, but it seems most people assume everyone has high-speed internet these days.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 10:19 pm

I find that a bit unusual, as HAM radio has been around for decades. HAM radio is one of the types of mobile/walkie-talkie radios you may have seen some people using in their car/truck, or desk radios you may have seen people using, similar to CB (citizen's band) radio. My dad is a HAM radio operator though, so it's something I grew up hearing about. I've thought about getting a HAM radio license, but I just haven't studied for it or taken the tests yet.

I have a strong belief that Ham radio is more of an American thing. I had previously never heard of it & nobody I have ever spoke to has mentioned it. I don't know anyone, perhaps outside of the trucking community who uses one... I really don't think it's a THING in the UK. It's certainly not mainstream, which is a shame as it looks like a useful tool.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 11:33 pm

Look at all those ads for Hughesnet and notice how Dish and DirecTV still have a large customer base. Due to the size of the US, there are more locations than people realize that have limited or no choices for wired or wi reless broadband.

I take it that the high-density areas in the US are well networked? It's the same here in the UK... I know there are still people on dial-up in the remote Scottish Highlands.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 11:38 pm

Due to DRM, there may be cultural works that may not be easily recoverable in the future without preseverationists creating workarounds to access r bypass oolder protection scheme. Imagine a library full of books, and no one can access them because the guy who owned the key threw it away when he retired.

It's a shame because a lot of the source codes for these games are going to go missing once devs shutdown, and without cooperation from Steam, many of these games are going to be lost forever. That's why I support Good Old Games whenever I can. They do sell SOME modern games DRM free.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Aug 05 2020 08:40 am

Yeah, porn has been around since the BBS days..
Nightfox

As a young lad I may have once stayed up all night to download a handful of jpg files at 2400 baud...
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Aug 05 2020 08:45 am

It wasn't just chat & games. In those days, I spent a lot of time looking for games, PC utilities, and other files to download from BBSes, and at 2400 baud, a ~200KB file could take about 15-20 minutes to download. And

Yeah, when a new multi-disk game demo came out and was available on more than one board, a few friends and I would split the task of downloading a disk worth and do the sneakernet copy exchange of the other disks at lunch or before school.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 03:38 pm

I have a strong belief that Ham radio is more of an American thing. I had previously never heard of it & nobody I have ever spoke to has mentioned it. I don't know anyone, perhaps outside of the trucking community who uses one... I really don't think it's a THING in the UK. It's certainly not mainstream, which is a shame as it looks like a useful tool.

I don't think it's true that it's mainly an American thing.. My dad is a HAM radio operator, and I've known other HAM radio people, who have talked to people all around the world on HAM radio. I remember my dad mentioning there used to be people in Australia that he'd talk to on HAM radio, and other places too. That was one of the cool things about it - There are HAM radio repeaters that will forward your signal all over the place.

HAM radio certainly doesn't seem to be nearly as popular as it used to be, which may be why you haven't heard about it. But it's a worldwide thing. I actually don't know a whole lot of people into HAM radio, maybe just my dad and one other person, but it's still a thing.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: MRO to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 10:31 pm

nope, that was what many call 'the third wave'
that's when it was super popular with new blood for a short while before it fizzed out.

Perhaps.. I didn't notice much of a surge at the time. I think my BBS usage was in steady decline until I eventually decided to take it offline in 2000 due to significant lack of callers.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 03:38 pm

I find that a bit unusual, as HAM radio has been around for decades.

I have a strong belief that Ham radio is more of an American thing. I had previously never heard of it & nobody I have ever spoke to has mentioned

I don't know how prevalent it is comparatively in the UK, but I think the bigger reason most of us folks feel like HAM is something most people should be aware of is that there used to be a reasonable crossover of HAMs and BBS users, so many of us have been very exposed to it being a thing whether we took up a radio or not.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Underminer to Andeddu on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:53 pm

I don't know how prevalent it is comparatively in the UK, but I think the bigger reason most of us folks feel like HAM is something most people should be aware of is that there used to be a reasonable crossover of HAMs and BBS users, so many of us have been very exposed to it being a thing whether we took up a radio or not.

That seems to be true. However I'm not sure I see the big connection between BBSing and HAM radio.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to MRO on Wed Aug 05 2020 02:22 pm

nope, that was what many call 'the third wave'
that's when it was super popular with new blood for a short while

Perhaps.. I didn't notice much of a surge at the time. I think my BBS usage was in steady decline until I eventually decided to take it offline in 2000 due to significant lack of callers.

Yeah, in my neck of the woods ~98-2001 was a completely dead period, then there was a huge surge around 2001-2005 when telnet access was the hot thing and Mt32 was nicely portable and something you could just chuck at a friend along with a dialing directory in a single zip and say "Unzip this on your desktop and click the icon to check out some neat boards"

While I LOVE syncterm and think Deuce has done a phenomenal job, we really do need something that easy and portable again to get some new blood flowing. The web ftelnet implementations just aren't that. That's largely been the feedback I've had from less technical friends who used to BBS but don't anymore too - web telnet doesn't feel right, and terminal software takes too many steps for them, especially when it comes to try and get it scaled right.

Maybe we need a "syncterm lite" that could work as a single executable, and default to either double size, or fullscreen with 4:3 letterbox that would then give people enough desire to download and install the full meal deal.

*shrugs* bit of a tangent, but yeah.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Andeddu wrote to Dennisk <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 01:16 am

it nicer to use Multimail. Lastly, if I stop and walk away from the computer, I don't get disconnected. Most BBS's have short session timeouts, so you get disconnected if you are not constantly typing away.

Ah, I see. I have had this happen before a number of times. I go away
to do a quick job and return to see the words "NO CARRIER". They sure don't give you much time to idle. This should probably be extended as
most BBSes have 10+ nodes.

Yeah, I agree. The timeouts made sense when you had dial up, and many BBS's only had one line. But now it could be made more generous, not only because its easy to have many nodes, but because in my experience, its not that often that more than 1 is used at a time.

The timeout can be extended, most seem to just use the default, which is too short. Sometimes I use Multimail while logged into the BBS, and I have to keep switching back to syncterm to keep the connection alive.

Sysops out there, please consider extending the amount of time a connection can be left idle.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 02:59 pm

I don't think we ever had local calls for free over here. I doubt I would have noticed anyway as I was never involved in any chat community around that time & I doubt there were any local gaming servers I could log into as online gaming back then was still in its infancy.

It wasn't just chat & games. In those days, I spent a lot of time
looking for games, PC utilities, and other files to download from
BBSes, and at 2400 baud, a ~200KB file could take about 15-20 minutes
to download. And of course it would take even longer if you had a
slower connection. I downloaded files quite a bit back then. I used
chat on some BBSes sometimes, but I actually never got much into BBS
door games back then.

Nightfox

I didn't chat much on BBS's back then, and didn't really message much either. One reason was that some were single line, so there was no one to chat to. The other was that being at home, I had to be wary of hogging the phone line. Once it caused a big problem when my dad couldn't get through to our house to ask my mum to pick him up late one night. I had a 2400 baud modem too, and downloading files took look enough. With limited time, that took most of it. Networked messaging I thought was some subscription service.

I did used to chat with a friend via modem, but not on a BBS. We would dial direct using Telix.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Aug 05 2020 08:40 am

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Nightfox on Tue Aug 04 2020 07:58 am

One of the early ones was Vivid Media. I had a bunch of friends who worked there, and this was early on in the internet era, when people had 1 work address and most people didn't have internet at home (or they had dialup)

People who left the company still kept their web pages at http://www.vivid.com/~username and their email addresses. They underwent a hostile takeover by one of their competitors, who promptly dumped the company name and the domain name.

Vivid Studios, the porn site, took over vivid.com, and people's legacy web sites redirected to the home page of a porn company.

hah.. That's funny.

Aside: we forget how early porn was on the internet - long before we were. My wife worked at a webcasting company from 1999 to 2016. They started off as a streaming news site with their own newsroom and journalists, and in the early days most of the engineering talent
came from the "adult entertainment" sector.

Yeah, porn has been around since the BBS days..

Nightfox

I get the impression porn has helped promote several forms of media. As soon as man began painting with charred pieces of wood on cave walls, I bet he
drew his share of naughty stick figures. When the first camera was
developed, the first customer probably took it down to the nearest brothel
and produced magic lantern shows,

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 04:25 pm

consumption of optical emdia, worldwide, is still ON THE RISE. It might surprise you, but most of the population on this ball of mud has no fiber connection to his house.

I dont think many people actually have fiber. i have to use spectrum which is only like 10MB down and 2MB up. sucks.

Besides, I love stashing the DVDs that come with Linux Magazine. When I need to fix something it is much faster to grab a DVD from the DVD pile than to download a rescue system. Specially if the machine you'd use for

they actually still have 'linux magazine' that comes with dvds?

that blows my mind
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:08 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 03 2020 05:19 pm

Internet connections are so quick now that there's no point in
physical media. I can download a game faster than it takes to
install it on an optical drive. I still prefer physical games on my
consoles though.

I originally figured the natural progression would probably be to buy games, movies, and music on USB flash drives. But it seems that didn't happen.. Not everyone has a fast internet connection though.

Nightfox

i guess they went with the cheaper option.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Underminer on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:45 pm

That seems to be true. However I'm not sure I see the big connection between BBSing and HAM radio.

Before cellular and mobile data became as prevalent as it is now, there were many many HAMS interested in and using digital data modes over VHF and linking to or creating their own BBSes. That's what made me want to and get my HAM ticket, only to find out that's pretty much dried up now. I have a bit of a pipe dream to setup an FTN style network over HF one day just for the fun and challenge, but that would require other interested parties.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

On 08-05-20 09:58, Mauro Veiga wrote to VK3JED <=-

Yes! The hard CRs probably was the Boxer/DOS 7.0b. A great
editor
that match fine with Bluewave.

Except for the bloody hard CRs, which cause the above when quoted. :/

Yes! And the text screen with ANSI colors is a pleasure for the
eyes.

Yep, text BBSs do look nice. :)

... "Engineering is easy, it's reading Klingon that's hard" Scotty

Haha yep - ST IV - The Voyage Home. :)

Great movie.

Indeed! :)

Klingon Bird of Prey - B'Rel Class

_ ________
_,-'|`||||||||_\___ _,-,_
| /_`-'||||||||' \\-____/_ __o`-,
|[__<|_|||||||| -----.______(=====/
|_\ \------'\____/--------\_,-'
`\`. \-'
\ \ \
`\`. \`
\ `-.__\
\______\
| ___\
\(___======][]
`--"

24
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

Nice! :) Let's see if it survives quoting. :)

... Captain, a Klingon does NOT play Tetris.

Haha. :D


... Five words every college grad knows... "You want fries with that?"
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Underminer on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:45 pm

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Underminer to Andeddu on Wed Aug 05 2020 04:53 pm

I don't know how prevalent it is comparatively in the UK, but I think the bigger reason most of us folks feel like HAM is something most people should be aware o
is that there used to be a reasonable crossover of HAMs and BBS users, so many of us have been very exposed to it being a thing whether we took up a radio or not

That seems to be true. However I'm not sure I see the big connection between BBSing and HAM radio.

Nightfox

There are BBSs that operate over pakcet radio.

The both of them have this DIY value for engineers, nerds and tinkerers. They are not related but I can see it attracting the same sort of people.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Underminer to Nightfox on Wed Aug 05 2020 05:22 pm

Yeah, in my neck of the woods ~98-2001 was a completely dead period, then there was a huge surge around 2001-2005 when telnet access was the hot thing and Mt32 was nicely portable and something you could just chuck at a

MT32? I'm thinking of the Roland MT-32 music synthesizer module, but I'm not sure that's what you mean..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MT-32

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:54 am

I didn't chat much on BBS's back then, and didn't really message much either. One reason was that some were single line, so there was no one to chat to. The other was that being at home, I had to be wary of hogging the

There were a couple multi-line BBSes in my area that had active multi-node chat sections, and I used those sometimes. There were only a few of those, but it seemed those tended to be MajorBBS boards in my area.

I did used to chat with a friend via modem, but not on a BBS. We would dial direct using Telix.

I did that sometimes too. There was one person who used to use my BBS around 1995 and sometimes we'd play Doom or Doom 2 over the modem with each other.

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Aug 05 2020 09:11 pm

they actually still have 'linux magazine' that comes with dvds?

that blows my mind

Yes they do. They print nearly 400 000 per year and get about 30 000 consumers of digital content in the same period.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Steam DRM
By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Aug 05 2020 09:11 pm

consumption of optical emdia, worldwide, is still ON THE RISE. It
might surprise you, but most of the population on this ball of mud
has no fiber connection to his house.

I dont think many people actually have fiber. i have to use spectrum which is only like 10MB down and 2MB up. sucks.

Verizon set up a fiber network in my area a long time ago that they called Fios. Then Frontier bought out Verizon's internet service about 10 years ago. I've been using Frontier fiber since I bought my house about 5 years ago. Now, Frontier's internet here was recently bought out by Ziply Fiber. When that happened, my internet service started dropping out at random times. After a few phone calls, I finally got ahold of a customer support person at Ziply who sent a tech out to my house. He replaced the ONT box outside my house - He said our old one was an old model they had been seeing problems with. Since then, my internet service has been stable and has been good. I was satisfied enough that I even called and had my internet service upgraded, since they had a price deal for 12 months. And from what they said, even after the 12 months, the price should be about the same as what I was paying before. I had 50 megabit service both download & upload with Frontier, and I had them upgrade me to 100 megabit (both ways).

I have a friend from high school who now lives in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and he has said they have really good internet service there.

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Wed Aug 05 2020 05:26 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 11:33 pm

Look at all those ads for Hughesnet and notice how Dish and DirecTV still have a large customer base. Due to the size of the US, there are more locations than people realize that have limited or no choices for wired wi reless broadband.

I take it that the high-density areas in the US are well networked? It's the same here in the UK... I know there are still people on dial-up in the remot Scottish Highlands.

That's a spot on assessment. When you travel into more rural areas, the distances between homes and farms becomes a limitation for cable and other
land line data providers. Cable providers have a "houses for mile of road" formula for making money off a cable run. I'm sure the telcos and fiber distributors also make more money off areas with higher population density,
and ignore the less populated areas.

During the early 20th century when electricity was considered a luxury
instead of a utility, a federal "electrification act" was created to enforce delivering the electricial grid to lesser travelled areas and locations where there were less customers per square mile.


---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Moondog on Wed Aug 05 2020 05:30 pm

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Tue Aug 04 2020 11:38 pm

Due to DRM, there may be cultural works that may not be easily recoverabl in the future without preseverationists creating workarounds to access r bypass oolder protection scheme. Imagine a library full of books, and no one can access them because the guy who owned the key threw it away when retired.

It's a shame because a lot of the source codes for these games are going to missing once devs shutdown, and without cooperation from Steam, many of thes games are going to be lost forever. That's why I support Good Old Games whenever I can. They do sell SOME modern games DRM free.

This may go beyond gaming and cover films and written literature that may be locked away on encrypted devices.

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■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Underminer on Thu Aug 06 2020 09:24 am

MT32? I'm thinking of the Roland MT-32 music synthesizer module, but I'm not sure that's what you mean.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_MT-32

Sorry, Mtel32 not MT32. Brain fart. It was a really ubiquitous terminal program for a while, and really easy to distribute and run since all it needed was the .exe, but if you included a dialing directory or config in the same directory it would read it.
---
Underminer
The Undermine BBS - bbs.undermine.ca:423
Fidonet: 1:342/17
---
■ Synchronet ■ The Undermine - bbs.undermine.ca:423

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Aug 06 2020 01:49 pm

This may go beyond gaming and cover films and written literature that may be locked away on encrypted devices.

Think positive. 60 years after the disapearance of the encryption keys, IT guys will find a way to break such "fossile" encryption and recover the data again!

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:54 am

I didn't chat much on BBS's back then, and didn't really message much either. One reason was that some were single line, so there was no one to chat to. The other was that being at home, I had to be wary of hogging the

There were a couple multi-line BBSes in my area that had active
multi-node chat sections, and I used those sometimes. There were only
a few of those, but it seemed those tended to be MajorBBS boards in my area.

I did used to chat with a friend via modem, but not on a BBS. We would dial direct using Telix.

I did that sometimes too. There was one person who used to use my BBS around 1995 and sometimes we'd play Doom or Doom 2 over the modem with each other.

Unfortunately not possible with a 2400 modem, so we resorted to direct serial links. I think there was a program which make Doom support it, but it was too laggy from memory. This was a long, long time ago.

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly. It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to MRO on Thu Aug 06 2020 12:16 pm

I dont think many people actually have fiber. i have to use
spectrum which is only like 10MB down and 2MB up. sucks.

Verizon set up a fiber network in my area a long time ago that they called Fios. Then Frontier bought out Verizon's internet service about 10 years ago. I've been using Frontier fiber since I bought my house about 5 years ago. Now, Frontier's internet here was recently bought out by Ziply Fiber. When that happened, my internet service started dropping out at random times. After a few phone calls, I finally got ahold of a customer support person at Ziply who sent a tech out to my house. He replaced the ONT box

i believe it's how they all got together and negotiated. in my area we will never have fiber because of the deals verizon cut with att and charter for cellphone rights.


so in the uppermidwest usa we are stuck with cable or ATT
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Underminer to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 03:43 pm

Sorry, Mtel32 not MT32. Brain fart. It was a really ubiquitous terminal program for a while, and really easy to distribute and run since all it needed was the .exe, but if you included a dialing directory or config in the same directory it would read it.

i still use mt32 and i host a mirror of the site at mt32.bbses.info
i dont like the other clients out there, i just dont like them as much as mtelnet.
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■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

On 08-07-20 11:13, Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss
most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly.
It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothered to write the applications.


... Diplomacy gets you out of what tact would have prevented.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-

On 08-07-20 11:13, Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss
most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly.
It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothered to write the applications.

Shouldn't be too hard. I mean, you can kind of do it already with Telix over DosBox.

Maybe I have found my new programming project.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Quoting Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga at 08-06-20 19:36 <=-

Yes! The hard CRs probably was the Boxer/DOS 7.0b. A great
editor
that match fine with Bluewave.

Except for the bloody hard CRs, which cause the above when quoted. :/

It is the formatting of the boxer. Inevitable.

Klingon Bird of Prey - B'Rel Class

_ ________
_,-'|`||||||||_\___ _,-,_
| /_`-'||||||||' \\-____/_ __o`-,
|[__<|_|||||||| -----.______(=====/
|_\ \------'\____/--------\_,-'
`\`. \-'
\ \ \
`\`. \`
\ `-.__\
\______\
| ___\
\(___======][]
`--"

24
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

Nice! :) Let's see if it survives quoting. :)

:-))


Klingon D-7 Class Attack Cruiser

,_o_,
=======
_____----(_o_)----_____
/ `-------------' \
[' `]

23
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

... WA*R*NIN*G:* T*ri*bb*l*es a*r*e* e*v*er*ywh*e*r*e!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

---
■ Synchronet ■ Ninho do Abutre 2 BBS - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 11:13 am

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly. It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant messger programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but now it seems like most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google Hangouts, and Pidgin Messenger is still around. You should still be able to chat with people using such software and send files that way, I'd think. Though I think some chat software these days will upload your file to a temporary server location until the recipient is online to download it.

Nightfox

Re: Steam DRM
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:55 pm

i believe it's how they all got together and negotiated. in my area we will never have fiber because of the deals verizon cut with att and charter for cellphone rights.

so in the uppermidwest usa we are stuck with cable or ATT

I've heard in the US, we pay some of the highest prices for some of the worst internet ni the world. There are other countries that have better internet speeds & infrastructure than we do, and customers there pay less for it.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Fri Aug 07 2020 06:33 pm

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss
most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files
directly. It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't
really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothered to write the applications.

The modern version of that are instant messengers. You can chat with someone in real time, and send/receive files directly.

They've been around for 20+ years.

DaiTengu

... Never try to out-stubborn a cat.

---
■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: DaiTengu to Vk3jed on Fri Aug 07 2020 10:42 am

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no
one's bothered to write the applications.

The modern version of that are instant messengers. You can chat with someone in real time, and send/receive files directly.

They've been around for 20+ years.

Many of the popular instant messengers are either gone or stripped of many of their features though. MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, and I think AOL Messenger are no longer working, and ICQ is not nearly what it used to be. There are things like Google Hangouts, but I'm not sure if they allow direct file transfers.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Vk3jed to Dennisk on Fri Aug 07 2020 06:33 pm

On 08-07-20 11:13, Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly. It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothe to write the applications.

... Diplomacy gets you out of what tact would have prevented.

I'm not sure if Skype or Teamviewer would allow for file transfers. I recall
I could do it with Bomgar on the technican side.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Fri Aug 07 2020 11:14 am

Many of the popular instant messengers are either gone or stripped of many of their features though. MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, and I think AOL Messenger are no longer working, and ICQ is not nearly what it used to be. There are things like Google Hangouts, but I'm not sure if they allow direct file transfers.

MSN Messenger is basically Skype now, that allows direct file transfers. Believe it or not, Facebook Messenger will allow you to send a file as well, although it's really geared towards images, I believe you can still send a zip file.

Jabber is an Open Source instant messaging system, and does require a central server (kind of like a BBS, as it's mostly independent), but you can do file transfers with that as well.

Google Hangouts are going away Soon<tm>. I mean, technically it's transitioning to "Google Meet" or something, geared towards business clients.

That said, things like Slack, Discord, HipChat, IRC, etc. allow one-on-one private messages with file transfers as well.

DaiTengu

... Drop your carrier ...we have you surrounded!

---
■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 02:39 pm

MSN Messenger is basically Skype now, that allows direct file transfers.

That's true, I forgot about that. I had been using both MSN Messenger and Skype, but after MSN Messenger disappared, none of my MSN Messenger contacts showed up on my Skype contacts list. I remember doing some sort of account migration though..

Believe it or not, Facebook Messenger will allow you to send a file as well, although it's really geared towards images, I believe you can still send a zip file.

Facebook Messenger is something I don't really use, mainly because it doesn't seem like there's a dedicated desktop PC client for it. I've always used it in the web browser when interacting with Facebook; I've never really noticed there being an option there to send a file.

Jabber is an Open Source instant messaging system, and does require a central server (kind of like a BBS, as it's mostly independent), but you can do file transfers with that as well.

I forgot about Jabber.

Google Hangouts are going away Soon<tm>. I mean, technically it's transitioning to "Google Meet" or something, geared towards business clients.

:/ It seems like Google often cancels things that people are actually using. I only have one contact on Google Hangouts though, and I have other ways of keeping in touch with him.

That said, things like Slack, Discord, HipChat, IRC, etc. allow one-on-one private messages with file transfers as well.

Things like Slack, Discord, and IRC seem in a different league all their own compared to the more simple one-on-one instant messenger clients.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Fri Aug 07 2020 08:44 am

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 11:13 am

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss mos about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly. It's od how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, resort to dropbox, etc.

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant messg programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but now it seems li most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google Hangouts, and Pidg Messenger is still around. You should still be able to chat with people usi such software and send files that way, I'd think. Though I think some chat software these days will upload your file to a temporary server location unt the recipient is online to download it.

Nightfox

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC clients.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 03:55 pm

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant
messg programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but now
it seems li most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC clients.

IRC seems like it's in a whole different class though.. IRC does chat rooms and isn't just a 1-on-1 instant messenger.

Nightfox

Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant messg programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but now it seems li most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google Hangouts, and Pidg Messenger is still around. You should still be able to chat with people usi such software and send files that way, I'd think. Though I think some chat software these days will upload your file to a temporary server location unt the recipient is online to download it.

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC
clients.

Yes, and it still does. :-)



... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

On 07 Aug 2020, Arelor said the following...

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC clients.

IRC is where I first learned about mp3 files. There were all these IRC bots that would let you download songs & others that had an upload/download ratio.

Jay

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/06/11 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Northern Realms BBS | bbs.nrbbs.net | Binbrook, ON

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Aug 05 2020 08:46 am

I agree. Some areas just don't have high-speed internet, but it seems most people assume everyone has high-speed internet these days.

I don't mind reasonable patches which are <4gb... it just seems the norm now that a lot of games released by Activision regularly ask for players to download up to 100gb in the form of a patch. Eurogamer released a news article a few days ago informing all players of CoD:MW (2019) that the next patch would be 47gb in size. All they were adding is a new map and bug fixing so there's no reasonable excuse for such a download size, by pushing such unoptimized downloads they're ostracizing a huge chunk of the community.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Wed Aug 05 2020 02:14 pm

I don't think it's true that it's mainly an American thing.. My dad is a HAM radio operator, and I've known other HAM radio people, who have talked to people all around the world on HAM radio. I remember my dad mentioning there used to be people in Australia that he'd talk to on HAM radio, and other places too. That was one of the cool things about it - There are HAM radio repeaters that will forward your signal all over the place.

HAM radio certainly doesn't seem to be nearly as popular as it used to be, which may be why you haven't heard about it. But it's a worldwide thing. I actually don't know a whole lot of people into HAM radio, maybe just my dad and one other person, but it's still a thing.

I think it's a pretty niche thing in the UK. I have seen HAM radios in Hollywood movies but I can't imagine where else. Perhaps it was much bigger over here prior to the millenium, as I wasn't really exposed to anything that wasn't either at home or at school.

Best of luck getting your HAM radio license... they seem like great devices to use in a SHTF situation.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 11:13 am

The ability to connect directly modem-modem is probably what I miss most about modems. Being able to chat directly, send files directly. It's odd how in the era of always on broadband, we can't really do this easily, and resort to dropbox, etc.

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant messger programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but
now it seems like most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google Hangouts, and Pidgin Messenger is still around. You should
still be able to chat with people using such software and send files
that way, I'd think. Though I think some chat software these days will upload your file to a temporary server location until the recipient is online to download it.

You can still do it, but its all indirect, mediated by a server. I think we need a terminal-terminal mode in programs like Qodem and Syncterm, where you can do a direct connect, and chat and send files.

Minicom can do it, but it doesn't support TCP. Telix can do it, over TCP with DOS, but its a bit of a hassle.

Security is an issue, you need some authentication. Also, you need to know the IP address, and some ISPs (like Telstra in Australia) don't give you a public IP address.

I just miss the simplicity of the direct dial.



... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Nightfox wrote to Arelor <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Fri Aug 07 2020 03:55 pm

It always seemed to me that you could send files directly with instant
messg programs like Yahoo Messgnger, MSN Messenger, ICQ, etc., but now
it seems li most of those are gone.. But these days, there is Google

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC clients.

IRC seems like it's in a whole different class though.. IRC does chat rooms and isn't just a 1-on-1 instant messenger.

Nightfox

IRC, Facebook, Skype, MSN Messenger, Jabber, ICQ are not the same as the direct dial. They all require a configured server and/or a third party moderated account. You can't just install Skype on two machines and connect, you have to create accounts with Microsoft.

That is what is missing, a basic program where if you only know an IP address you can connect to someone else and chat/send files, etc. Maybe you would add an authentical layer, public a public connection and encryption, but effectively the same.

Something like Minicom/Telix using an SSH tunnel.

Can you connect client to client with IRC?

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Aug 07 2020 08:45 am

Re: Steam DRM
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:55 pm

i believe it's how they all got together and negotiated. in my area
we will never have fiber because of the deals verizon cut with att
and charter for cellphone rights.

so in the uppermidwest usa we are stuck with cable or ATT

I've heard in the US, we pay some of the highest prices for some of the worst internet ni the world. There are other countries that have better internet speeds & infrastructure than we do, and customers there pay less for it.

Nightfox

yep and i've seen timewarner keep the speeds low and have everybody paying different prices. they would only raise the speeds when competition came in and took away customers.

then when charter came in, they had people on 'legacy plans' where they paid more for less.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Steam DRM
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 12:13 am

I don't mind reasonable patches which are <4gb... it just seems the norm now that a lot of games released by Activision regularly ask for players to download up to 100gb in the form of a patch. Eurogamer released a news article a few days ago informing all players of CoD:MW (2019) that the next patch would be 47gb in size. All they were adding is a new map and bug fixing so there's no reasonable excuse for such a download size, by pushing such unoptimized downloads they're ostracizing a huge chunk of the community.

That's pretty big.
In the 90s, I remember downloading patches for games like Descent, Doom, and others that would update the binaries from one version to a newer version. They'd basically do a "diff" between the old & new binaries, and the patcher program would basically change the old binary into the new binary based on the differences. It made for relatively small patches, though they were made only to update a specific version. They even did that to update shareware versions, if I remember right.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 01:20 pm

You can still do it, but its all indirect, mediated by a server. I think we need a terminal-terminal mode in programs like Qodem and Syncterm, where you can do a direct connect, and chat and send files.

Minicom can do it, but it doesn't support TCP. Telix can do it, over TCP with DOS, but its a bit of a hassle.

Security is an issue, you need some authentication. Also, you need to know the IP address, and some ISPs (like Telstra in Australia) don't give you a public IP address.

I just miss the simplicity of the direct dial.

In the 90s, there were a couple times when I would direct-dial someone over the modem and we'd just chat over the modem. And I remember there was one user on my BBS back then who I was in a user-sysop chat with, and he said on a BBS, he thought you could just go ahead and start uploading a file and it would accept the file. I told him on a BBS, you had to go to the file menu and then choose to upload (and upload to the right area) and he wasn't sure at first. I let him try it and of course, just uploading a file without going to the right place on the BBS didn't work. I think he was thinking of being on a direct-dial session with someone and sending a file over. If you were using zmodem that way, I think the receiving user's system would just auto-start and the file would start transferring when the sender started sending it.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 01:30 pm

IRC, Facebook, Skype, MSN Messenger, Jabber, ICQ are not the same as the direct dial. They all require a configured server and/or a third party

I wasn't really thinking of direct dial in this case, but that's true.

Can you connect client to client with IRC?

Not that I know of. IRC clients require connecting to an IRC server.

Nightfox

Hello Dennisk!

** On Saturday 08.08.20 - 14:30, dennisk wrote to Nightfox:

That is what is missing, a basic program where if you only know an IP address you can connect to someone else and chat/send files, etc.
Maybe you would add an authentical layer, public a public connection
and encryption, but effectively the same.

Can't a torrent transfer be a solution for the file part (sans chat)?
From what I can tell, you can create a torrent token, send it to your
peer, and the peer can use it to find your offering. Both systems
coordinate the date and time they would be online and feed/seed to each other.

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Nightfox wrote to Dennisk <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 01:20 pm

You can still do it, but its all indirect, mediated by a server. I think we need a terminal-terminal mode in programs like Qodem and Syncterm, where you can do a direct connect, and chat and send files.

Minicom can do it, but it doesn't support TCP. Telix can do it, over TCP with DOS, but its a bit of a hassle.

Security is an issue, you need some authentication. Also, you need to know the IP address, and some ISPs (like Telstra in Australia) don't give you a public IP address.

I just miss the simplicity of the direct dial.

In the 90s, there were a couple times when I would direct-dial someone over the modem and we'd just chat over the modem. And I remember there was one user on my BBS back then who I was in a user-sysop chat with,
and he said on a BBS, he thought you could just go ahead and start uploading a file and it would accept the file. I told him on a BBS,
you had to go to the file menu and then choose to upload (and upload to the right area) and he wasn't sure at first. I let him try it and of course, just uploading a file without going to the right place on the
BBS didn't work. I think he was thinking of being on a direct-dial session with someone and sending a file over. If you were using zmodem that way, I think the receiving user's system would just auto-start and the file would start transferring when the sender started sending it.

There was one friend and we would do this often, just to chat, occasionally to send files. There was once where by keeping the modem connected and exiting Telix, I could give control of the DOS command prompt to him. It has something to do with redirecting stdin from the keyboard to the serial port. We also used SZmodem, which allowed chat during a file transfer, as well as games including a two player game or two, I believe.

Zmodem would in a terminal program, automatically initiate a download. You can still do that now with ztelnet and zssh.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Ogg wrote to All <=-

Hello Dennisk!

** On Saturday 08.08.20 - 14:30, dennisk wrote to Nightfox:

That is what is missing, a basic program where if you only know an IP address you can connect to someone else and chat/send files, etc.
Maybe you would add an authentical layer, public a public connection
and encryption, but effectively the same.

Can't a torrent transfer be a solution for the file part (sans chat)?
From what I can tell, you can create a torrent token, send it to your peer, and the peer can use it to find your offering. Both systems coordinate the date and time they would be online and feed/seed to each other.

Yes, it would work. I have thought in the past of doing that. Your client would also needs to act as a tracker.

My point isn't that there aren't ways to transfer files, there are. But you can no longer "just connect" in the way you could with Telix.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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On 08-07-20 20:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothered to write the applications.

Shouldn't be too hard. I mean, you can kind of do it already with
Telix over DosBox.

Yeah, I think a newbie network programming assignment, really. :)

Maybe I have found my new programming project.

Should be a quick one. ;)


... It's easy to be brave from a safe distance.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-07-20 10:46, Mauro Veiga wrote to VK3JED <=-

@VIA: VERT/ABUTRE2

Quoting Vk3jed to Mauro Veiga at 08-06-20 19:36 <=-

Yes! The hard CRs probably was the Boxer/DOS 7.0b. A great
editor
that match fine with Bluewave.

Except for the bloody hard CRs, which cause the above when quoted. :/

It is the formatting of the boxer. Inevitable.

Yeah, annoying they did that. :(

Klingon Bird of Prey - B'Rel Class

_ ________
_,-'|`||||||||_\___ _,-,_
| /_`-'||||||||' \\-____/_ __o`-,
|[__<|_|||||||| -----.______(=====/
|_\ \------'\____/--------\_,-'
`\`. \-'
\ \ \
`\`. \`
\ `-.__\
\______\
| ___\
\(___======][]
`--"

24
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

Nice! :) Let's see if it survives quoting. :)

:-))

Klingon D-7 Class Attack Cruiser

,_o_,
=======
_____----(_o_)----_____
/ `-------------' \
[' `]

23
MeSSaGe SiTTeR 1.00 - Full Version
Live Long and Prosper

Yep, they all survive multiple quoting passes. :D



... Aha! Another "undocumented feature"!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-07-20 10:42, DaiTengu wrote to Vk3jed <=-

The modern version of that are instant messengers. You can chat with someone in real time, and send/receive files directly.

Are there any left? Some did do direct transfers, others (like Yahoo) routed stuff through their servers.

They've been around for 20+ years.

And almost gone now. I think Jabber/XMPP is the only one I've used in recent years, and on a separate network at that.


... I am not an Economist. I am an honest man!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-07-20 12:24, Moondog wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I'm not sure if Skype or Teamviewer would allow for file transfers. I recall I could do it with Bomgar on the technican side.

I think Skype may be able to do it.


... Let's see here...<ctrl>-<alt>-<del>...Oh no!Oops
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-07-20 15:55, Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-

Don't forget IRC. AFAIK it allowed direct transfer between IRC clients.

NAT pretty much killed that. :(


... Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-08-20 13:30, Dennisk wrote to Nightfox <=-

Can you connect client to client with IRC?

It has to be initiated via a server, but DCC SEND and DCC CHAT are direct client to client, once initiated. The issue is getting past NAT, because one end listens on a port for the incoming TCP connection from the other client.


... Grdauaet @TO@ shcool of typign
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Vk3jed wrote to Dennisk <=-

On 08-07-20 20:03, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

That was fun in those days. It's theoretically possible, but no one's bothered to write the applications.

Shouldn't be too hard. I mean, you can kind of do it already with
Telix over DosBox.

Yeah, I think a newbie network programming assignment, really. :)

Maybe I have found my new programming project.

Should be a quick one. ;)

Might base it on Minicom, as it has most of the functionality already.

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to MRO on Fri Aug 07 2020 08:45 am

Re: Steam DRM
By: MRO to Nightfox on Thu Aug 06 2020 10:55 pm

i believe it's how they all got together and negotiated. in my area we will never have fiber because of the deals verizon cut with att and charter for cellphone rights.

so in the uppermidwest usa we are stuck with cable or ATT

I've heard in the US, we pay some of the highest prices for some of the wors

Nightfox

Other nations are as large as some of our states, so I can imagine it's
cheaper to run high speed broadband elsewhere.

---
■ Synchronet ■ The Cave BBS - Since 1992 - cavebbs.homeip.net

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 08:52 am

I've heard in the US, we pay some of the highest prices for some of
the wors

Other nations are as large as some of our states, so I can imagine it's cheaper to run high speed broadband elsewhere.

That's probably true. Also we have an old infrastructure in the US, whereas companies in other countries have installed newer infrastructure. Also I think there are laws in the US that favor copmanies more often than consumers.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 01:30 pm

IRC, Facebook, Skype, MSN Messenger, Jabber, ICQ are not the same as the dir dial. They all require a configured server and/or a third party moderated account. You can't just install Skype on two machines and connect, you have create accounts with Microsoft.

That is what is missing, a basic program where if you only know an IP addres you can connect to someone else and chat/send files, etc. Maybe you would a an authentical layer, public a public connection and encryption, but effectively the same.

Something like Minicom/Telix using an SSH tunnel.

Can you connect client to client with IRC?

... MultiMail, the new multi-platform, multi-format offline reader!

IRC allows client-to-client but I am not sure if you need a server for the initial handshake.

There is a video-conference program that allows client-to-client chats and conferences and p2p realtime conferences. It was featured in a LInux Magazine article but I don't remember the name of it. You may use servers for things like user registration and nickname managing, but that is not really necessary as far as I am aware.

--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Fri Aug 07 2020 03:09 pm

That said, things like Slack, Discord, HipChat, IRC, etc. allow
one-on-one private messages with file transfers as well.

Things like Slack, Discord, and IRC seem in a different league all their own compared to the more simple one-on-one instant messenger clients.

Most BBSes back in the early 90's had Multi-user chat systems, so it's not that different. You could create group chats with the instant messengers too, Jabber has rooms/channels, as did AIM (which was just an extension of AOL's original "rooms", which in turn was a rip off of IRC).

A lot of modern instant messengers are designed for mobile, now. WhatsApp, Telegram, Facebook Messenger, etc. Heck, every mobile phone has some sort of text messaging, which is really just instant messaging between phone numbers (and capable of transferring media files)

DaiTengu

... I'm frequently appalled by the low regard you Earthmen have for life.

---
■ Synchronet ■ War Ensemble BBS - The sport is war, total war - warensemble.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Sat Aug 08 2020 12:45 am

Can't a torrent transfer be a solution for the file part (sans chat)? From what I can tell, you can create a torrent token, send it to your peer, and the peer can use it to find your offering. Both systems coordinate the date and time they would be online and feed/seed to each other.

what do you mean by torrent token?

usually you need a tracker and seeds for torrent files.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Dennisk on Fri Aug 07 2020 09:54 pm

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 01:30 pm

IRC, Facebook, Skype, MSN Messenger, Jabber, ICQ are not the same as
the direct dial. They all require a configured server and/or a third
party

I wasn't really thinking of direct dial in this case, but that's true.

Can you connect client to client with IRC?

Not that I know of. IRC clients require connecting to an IRC server.

you can do a DCC. so you can send files or do non relayed chats.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Ogg on Sat Aug 08 2020 04:40 pm

would also needs to act as a tracker.

My point isn't that there aren't ways to transfer files, there are. But you can no longer "just connect" in the way you could with Telix.

you can use waste or kdx
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

MRO wrote to Dennisk <=-

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Dennisk to Ogg on Sat Aug 08 2020 04:40 pm

would also needs to act as a tracker.

My point isn't that there aren't ways to transfer files, there are. But you can no longer "just connect" in the way you could with Telix.

KDX looks pretty cool. Will have to see what I can do with it.

--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Steam DRM
By: Moondog to Andeddu on Thu Aug 06 2020 01:49 pm

This may go beyond gaming and cover films and written literature that may be locked away on encrypted devices.

This would not surprise me one bit. In 5-10 years, we may only be able to view home movies through streaming services along with the likes of iTunes for permanent "ownership"... I guess you're be able to transfer any movies purchased from iTunes onto another non-Apple device and burn it onto a disc today, but who knowns what the rules are going to be tomorrow.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Fri Aug 07 2020 11:14 am

Many of the popular instant messengers are either gone or stripped of many of their features though. MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, and I think AOL Messenger are no longer working, and ICQ is not nearly what it used to be. There are things like Google Hangouts, but I'm not sure if they allow direct file transfers.

People tend to use IMs on their phone now, hence the popularity of WhatsApp.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Steam DRM
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Fri Aug 07 2020 09:50 pm

That's pretty big.
In the 90s, I remember downloading patches for games like Descent, Doom, and others that would update the binaries from one version to a newer version. They'd basically do a "diff" between the old & new binaries, and the patcher program would basically change the old binary into the new binary based on the differences. It made for relatively small patches, though they were made only to update a specific version. They even did that to update shareware versions, if I remember right.

Developers are getting very lazy these days. I have seen games like PUBG basically asking people to re-download the entire title so that it can be updated fully. Activision has been doing similar things for a while... it's so anti-consumer. The majority of developers do provide patches that target only that which is in need of being changed.

Next-gen titles are going to exceed 200gb in install size... I'd best have a 5G connection on stand-by if I am to negotiate patches for those games!

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 04:39 pm

A lot of modern instant messengers are designed for mobile, now. WhatsApp, Telegram, Facebook Messenger, etc. Heck, every mobile phone has some sort of text messaging, which is really just instant messaging between phone numbers (and capable of transferring media files)

I've heard WhatsApp and similar messengers are so popular in some countries that people just use those and might never use SMS text messenging.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 09 2020 12:22 am

Many of the popular instant messengers are either gone or stripped of
many of their features though. MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, and I
think AOL Messenger are no longer working, and ICQ is not nearly what
it used to be. There are things like Google Hangouts, but I'm not sure
if they allow direct file transfers.

People tend to use IMs on their phone now, hence the popularity of WhatsApp.

Most of the instant messanging programs I mentioned above (MSN Messenger and Yahoo Messenger at least) had a smartphone app available too..

There is a WhatsApp desktop program for Windows, but it requires your phone to be available on the same network, since it seems to communicate through the WhatsApp app on the phone.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Sat Aug 08 2020 09:05 pm

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Sat Aug 08 2020 04:39 pm

A lot of modern instant messengers are designed for mobile, now. WhatsA Telegram, Facebook Messenger, etc. Heck, every mobile phone has some so of text messaging, which is really just instant messaging between phone numbers (and capable of transferring media files)

I've heard WhatsApp and similar messengers are so popular in some countries that people just use those and might never use SMS text messenging.

Nightfox

Yes. In Spain, everybody uses Whatsapp or Telegram. Signal Messenger has gained some traction during the COVID-19 lockdowns because of claims Whatsapp was limiting the sharing of links and messages because the amount of anti-government dissenting had skyrocketed.

SMS is mainly used for corporative messaging. It is just the one show to be
the most reliable. It is the sort of thing banks use to deliver one-time-pins and the like.


--
gopher://gopher.operationalsecurity.es

---
■ Synchronet ■ Palantir BBS * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL

On 08-08-20 21:39, Dennisk wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Might base it on Minicom, as it has most of the functionality already.

Yeah, that's an option. :)


... God is dead. But don't worry - the Virgin Mary is pregnant again.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

On 08-08-20 21:08, Nightfox wrote to Andeddu <=-

There is a WhatsApp desktop program for Windows, but it requires your phone to be available on the same network, since it seems to
communicate through the WhatsApp app on the phone.

I use it, it does work well, even though it has that odd way of working. Telegram also has a desktop version, but it logs in directly, I believe.


... Message from God: Universe rebooting in 5 sec. Please log out.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.51
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sat Aug 08 2020 09:08 pm

Most of the instant messanging programs I mentioned above (MSN Messenger and Yahoo Messenger at least) had a smartphone app available too..

There is a WhatsApp desktop program for Windows, but it requires your phone to be available on the same network, since it seems to communicate through the WhatsApp app on the phone.

Nightfox

To activate you WhatsApp account, a telephone number is required. It's one account per SIM... which is why it's so popualar, I believe. As soon as you add someone to your phone book, they're automatically added on WhatsApp.

In the UK WhatsApp is so big I have never really heard of people using SMS. I have personally used around 5-10 SMS messages in 2020, and these messages are to older folk who don't have smartphones.

WhatsApp is great when it comes to sending pictures, documents or videos... it's such a streamlined and easy to use service once it has access to your phone. I have been involved in larger group chats with people from work and any files dropped are accessible to those within the chat. One to one voice/video chat along with conference calls are possible too.

I do miss MSN Messenger on Windows though. I have a lot of fond memories using that IM around 2004-2012. I recall FaceBook being responsible for partially killing it around 2009/2010. I hated that integrated web-script chat box and much perferred the MSN client.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sun Aug 09 2020 05:22 am

Yes. In Spain, everybody uses Whatsapp or Telegram. Signal Messenger has gained some traction during the COVID-19 lockdowns because of claims Whatsapp was limiting the sharing of links and messages because the amount of anti-government dissenting had skyrocketed.

The same happened here in the UK due to people spreading "misinformation"... I have seen a more concerted effort from the silicon valley giants to control information, which is why companies such as Google are being investigated in relation to the upcoming US election.

---
■ Synchronet ■ BBS for Amstrad computer users including CPC, PPC and PCW!

Hello Arelor!

** On Sunday 09.08.20 - 06:22, arelor wrote to Nightfox:

Yes. In Spain, everybody uses Whatsapp or Telegram. Signal Messenger
has gained some traction during the COVID-19 lockdowns because of
claims Whatsapp was limiting the sharing of links and messages because
the amount of anti-government dissenting had skyrocketed.

One thing I dislike about the new system of cellphones is that people who would otherwise be a local call due to their actual place of residence now show up as a long-distance call on my bill.

The voice quality of the cell call is often poor too.

I have been skirting around the problem by using a webbased sms form for
the last few years. I could reach practically anyone on any of the
carriers. It was free, and I didn't have to ask for email addresses that people would often quote incorrectly. I would simply ask the customer,
"is your phone number textable?". If so, the webform service delivered to everyone except for a couple of rival telephone companies. In which case,
I could then use an email-to-SMS method specific to that rival service.
But recently, the webform service now limits the message to customers that use the service of the provider. :( The email-to-SMS service is impractical since each number could be based on any of the 6 or 8 services out there.

Using the webform was extremely efficient for sending text announcing the arrival of a special order. Copy "title" from my database, and paste, and send. I wouldn't have to wait for extended number rings or listen to a lengthy answering machine message. And, I avoid extra LD charges.


I *could* actually use my cell phone to text these people, but then I'd be exposing my cell number which I don't want to do - plus, I wouldn't have
the copy-paste access from my database.

To get around the "people don't quote their email addresses properly" problem, I could probably build an opt-in form on my website where people could subscribe to, and revert to plain email for special order announcements.

BUT, if people could be convinced to simply call my BBS (hypothetical at
this time) they could check for their messages that way! LOL

SMS is mainly used for corporative messaging. It is just the one show
to be the most reliable. It is the sort of thing banks use to deliver one-time-pins and the like.

SMS doesn't require people to have a specific app (Whatsapp, Messenger, Telegram, etc) to receive a few characters. SMS doesn't bear much
overhead on the overall signal service at all. It is a shame that its use has become a racket.

---
■ Synchronet ■ End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 09 2020 08:36 pm

To activate you WhatsApp account, a telephone number is required. It's one account per SIM... which is why it's so popualar, I believe. As soon as you add someone to your phone book, they're automatically added on WhatsApp.

Yeah, I have some contacts on WhatsApp which is why I use it sometimes, but it's not something I use regularly.

In the UK WhatsApp is so big I have never really heard of people using SMS. I have personally used around 5-10 SMS messages in 2020, and these messages are to older folk who don't have smartphones.

I've heard it's different in other countries, but in the US, most people use SMS to text each other on their phones, so normally we would not have a reason to use WhatsApp unless we know someone who uses WhatsApp for some reason.

What's the reason for people not using SMS in the UK? That seems a little strange to me, because SMS is a feature included with all cell phones, and WhatsApp is a 3rd-party app you have to install on your phone before you can use it.

WhatsApp is great when it comes to sending pictures, documents or videos... it's such a streamlined and easy to use service once it has access to your phone.

You can do that with SMS messages too.. What advantage does WhatsApp offer in that regard?

I have been involved in larger group chats with
people from work and any files dropped are accessible to those within the chat. One to one voice/video chat along with conference calls are possible too.

You can do group chats with SMS too, and send a file out to everyone.

I do miss MSN Messenger on Windows though. I have a lot of fond memories using that IM around 2004-2012. I recall FaceBook being responsible for partially killing it around 2009/2010. I hated that integrated web-script chat box and much perferred the MSN client.

There are contacts I had on MSN Messneger and other chat clients that I don't have on my contacts anymore. One chat program I really miss is ICQ though. ICQ had a little profile you could fill out for yourself, and ICQ would let you search for a random chat partner from anywhere in th eworld. I used that in the late 90s to early 2000s to chat with people. I think ICQ has removed those features though.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to All on Sun Aug 09 2020 05:51 pm

One thing I dislike about the new system of cellphones is that people who would otherwise be a local call due to their actual place of residence now show up as a long-distance call on my bill.

whats long distance?
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Hello MRO!

** On Sunday 09.08.20 - 22:07, mro wrote to Ogg:

One thing I dislike about the new system of cellphones is that people who Og>> would otherwise be a local call due to their actual place of residence Og>> now show up as a long-distance call on my bill.

whats long distance?

Long distance calls incur charges per minute.
Local calls are free.

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On 08-09-20 23:11, Ogg wrote to MRO <=-

Long distance calls incur charges per minute.
Local calls are free.

My plan includes all national calls (for me that's within Australia), so I can call any standard landline or mobile in the country and not pay any extra. The plan itself costs $20/month. So for me, "long distance" is irrelevant, unless it's international.


... I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.
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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Sun Aug 09 2020 08:36 pm

To activate you WhatsApp account, a telephone number is required. It's one account per SIM... which is why it's so popualar,
believe. As soon as you add someone to your phone book, they're automatically added on WhatsApp.

The real strangth of that, from the comercial point of view, is that it removes the necessity of managing user credentials.
Your average dumb user only needs to know his phone number to operate the messaging device. No more user/password combinations
required, which nowadays a lot of people is unable to manage.

This has the bonus of letting the IM service provider know your phone number and the phone number of your contacts, which is
juicy minable data.


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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Sun Aug 09 2020 08:44 pm

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sun Aug 09 2020 05:22 am

Yes. In Spain, everybody uses Whatsapp or Telegram. Signal Messenger has gained some traction during the COVID-19 lockdow
because of claims Whatsapp was limiting the sharing of links and messages because the amount of anti-government dissenti
had skyrocketed.

The same happened here in the UK due to people spreading "misinformation"... I have seen a more concerted effort from the
silicon valley giants to control information, which is why companies such as Google are being investigated in relation to th
upcoming US election.

I am all for fending misinformation off, but when the "fact checking agencies" are directed by politician's friends and
non-conspiranoic topics are shadow-censored because they talk trash about the prime minister, I start to worry XD

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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 09 2020 07:31 pm

In the UK WhatsApp is so big I have never really heard of people using SMS. I have personally used around 5-10 SMS
messages in 2020, and these messages are to older folk who don't have smartphones.

I've heard it's different in other countries, but in the US, most people use SMS to text each other on their phones, so
normally we would not have a reason to use WhatsApp unless we know someone who uses WhatsApp for some reason.

What's the reason for people not using SMS in the UK? That seems a little strange to me, because SMS is a feature included
with all cell phones, and WhatsApp is a 3rd-party app you have to install on your phone before you can use it.

Most european phone plans charge you for each SMS you send, so you can save money by using an Internet IM service instead.


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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Sun Aug 09 2020 07:31 pm

I've heard it's different in other countries, but in the US, most people use SMS to text each other on their phones, so normally we would not have a reason to use WhatsApp unless we know someone who uses WhatsApp for some reason.

What's the reason for people not using SMS in the UK? That seems a little strange to me, because SMS is a feature included with all cell phones, and WhatsApp is a 3rd-party app you have to install on your phone before you can use it.

You can do that with SMS messages too.. What advantage does WhatsApp offer in that regard?

You can do group chats with SMS too, and send a file out to everyone.

There are contacts I had on MSN Messneger and other chat clients that I don't have on my contacts anymore. One chat program I really miss is ICQ though. ICQ had a little profile you could fill out for yourself, and ICQ would let you search for a random chat partner from anywhere in th eworld.
I used that in the late 90s to early 2000s to chat with people. I think ICQ has removed those features though.

In the UK most people tend to sport large data packages as part of their contracts. I have access to infinite data and around 500 SMS messages per month... the internet appears to be a lot quicker to me than SMS. Also, SMS has never really been treated as an IM. No one I know has had long conversations over a short period of time over SMS, hence the necessity for MSN Messenger and FaceBook Chat in the pre-smartphone era.

I didn't know that it was possible to SMS as part of a group... does that mean you're sending a single message several times to different people? That would eat up your SMS allocation quickly.

In relation to pictures/files, are you referring to MMS? That's really quite slow and again, it consumes your SMS monthly allocation quickly. I've never tried sending a video over MMS - sounds like a god damn nightmare, tbh.

ICQ was my first IM client. I liked it a lot however only really used it to speak to my cousin who lived around 400 miles away from me. mIRC was my main chat client for around three years... it was absolutely required if you were involved in the online gaming scene backin the late 90s, early 00s.

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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Arelor to Andeddu on Mon Aug 10 2020 07:42 am

The real strangth of that, from the comercial point of view, is that it removes the necessity of managing user credentials.
Your average dumb user only needs to know his phone number to operate the messaging device. No more user/password combinations
required, which nowadays a lot of people is unable to manage.

This has the bonus of letting the IM service provider know your phone number and the phone number of your contacts, which is
juicy minable data.

It's very useful when switching over to a new phone as well. Pop in your SIM, download the app and you're all set.

I think most phone IMs operate in the same fashion. WhatsApp is massive in the UK but I think it's different elsewhere - in Asia WeChat and Viber seem to be the go to IMs.

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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 10 2020 06:18 pm

contracts. I have access to infinite data and around 500 SMS messages per month... the internet appears to be a lot quicker to me than SMS. Also,

If you have a limited number of SMS messages per month, then that would make a difference.

I didn't know that it was possible to SMS as part of a group... does that mean you're sending a single message several times to different people? That would eat up your SMS allocation quickly.

You don't have to send the message multiple times. You can choose multiple recipients and create a group chat.

In relation to pictures/files, are you referring to MMS? That's really quite slow and again, it consumes your SMS monthly allocation quickly. I've never tried sending a video over MMS - sounds like a god damn nightmare, tbh.

It's probably MMS. I think there are benefits to something like WhatsApp for sure, like the ability to work over the internet with a wifi connection rather than only on cellular data.

ICQ was my first IM client. I liked it a lot however only really used it to speak to my cousin who lived around 400 miles away from me. mIRC was my main chat client for around three years... it was absolutely required if you were involved in the online gaming scene backin the late 90s, early 00s.

I had a couple family members & friends on my ICQ list, but I often used ICQ's feature of connecting you to random people to chat with. IRC is a bit of a different thing in that IRC seemed to mainly be used for chat rooms with multiple people.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Andeddu to Arelor on Mon Aug 10 2020 06:53 pm

I think most phone IMs operate in the same fashion. WhatsApp is massive in the UK but I think it's different elsewhere - in Asia WeChat and Viber seem to be the go to IMs.

I have some friends in Brazil who use WhatsApp. One created a few group chats for people who want to learn English, Portuguese, and Italian. That's basically the only thing I'm using WhatsApp for right now.. Nobody else I know uses WhatsApp.

Nightfox

Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to MRO on Sun Aug 09 2020 11:11 pm

whats long distance?

Long distance calls incur charges per minute.
Local calls are free.

yeah i'm just joking. in my area we havent had long distance charges
in many many years.
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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: MRO to Ogg on Mon Aug 10 2020 09:10 pm

yeah i'm just joking. in my area we havent had long distance charges
in many many years.

I haven't had a land line in a long time, so I don't know how it works with land lines now. But first got a cell phone in 2001, and since then, nationwide calling has been free, with only international phone numbers having long-distance charges.
Right now I'm using an inexpensive prepaid service, and it doesn't have international calling. I'd have to buy a prepaid international phone card or something if I wanted to dial an international phone number (which I've rarely had to do).

Nightfox

Hello MRO!

** On Monday 10.08.20 - 22:10, mro wrote to Ogg:

whats long distance?

Long distance calls incur charges per minute.
Local calls are free.

yeah i'm just joking. in my area we havent had long distance charges
in many many years.

Where exactly is your area?

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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Ogg to MRO on Mon Aug 10 2020 11:15 pm

Hello MRO!

** On Monday 10.08.20 - 22:10, mro wrote to Ogg:

whats long distance?

Long distance calls incur charges per minute.
Local calls are free.

yeah i'm just joking. in my area we havent had long distance
charges in many many years.

Where exactly is your area?

i'm in midwest usa
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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 10 2020 01:59 pm

I had a couple family members & friends on my ICQ list, but I often used ICQ's feature of connecting you to random people to chat with. IRC is a bit of a different thing in that IRC seemed to mainly be used for chat rooms with multiple people.

I was aware you could connect with random people over ICQ which was a pretty cool feature... don't believe I ever tried it though. I'll always have a soft spot for ICQ as my first IM but it did look rough around the edges in presentation. The definitive IM for me was MSN Messenger in 2007. That update made the GUI so slick... wish it were still around today.

The only form of IM I use anymore on my PC is Steam's built in chat with some of my friends before we load up a game.

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Re: Re: BBSes today
By: Nightfox to Andeddu on Mon Aug 10 2020 02:05 pm

I have some friends in Brazil who use WhatsApp. One created a few group chats for people who want to learn English, Portuguese, and Italian. That's basically the only thing I'm using WhatsApp for right now.. Nobody else I know uses WhatsApp.

Do Americans use WhatsApp on the whole? Are IMs popular in the States or do you all have massive SMS contracts? Like I said, in the UK WhatsApp is ALL we use. I am not sure if it's the same in mainland Europe... Arelor said there's another IM that's popular in Spain but they also use WhatsApp.

I suppose it's better if each country sticks to one popular IM so that there's no requirement to download more than one third party app. I use WhatsApp as my only internet based chat service, and I SMS the odd person who doesn't have a smart phone.

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