I read something on Slashdot today about "Anonymous" hackers working
on something called AirChat using encrypted radio comms to talk
digitally many miles.

Any comments on this? As some commentators mentioned, I'm fairly
certain this violates most countries' regulations, but even apart from
the encryption, can one legally broadcast digital comms in that manner
at that distance without license?

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where
BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile
range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling
that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough
interest.


--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Sovereign State BBS

Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Dreamer to All on Thu Apr 24 2014 12:29:00

I read something on Slashdot today about "Anonymous" hackers working
on something called AirChat using encrypted radio comms to talk
digitally many miles.

Any comments on this? As some commentators mentioned, I'm fairly
certain this violates most countries' regulations, but even apart from
the encryption, can one legally broadcast digital comms in that manner
at that distance without license?

I'm pretty sure it's illegal, at least in the US, unless it's
via satellite provider encryption, wifi, or cell tower shite. As far as broadcasting that distance, depends on the wattage. Otherwise, if it's
not gonna go that far in <5w, or whatever the limitation is, you can use repeaters or a meshnet configuration, kind of like NexTel did.

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where
BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile
range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling
that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough
interest.

That would be very nice. :)


-- guh up the effbomb down wif yr bad self


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■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://bismaninfo.hopto.org:8023/ 1:282/1057

Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Dreamer to All on Thu Apr 24 2014 12:29 pm

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where
BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile
range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling
that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough
interest.

We don't really need an entirely new band - the ISM bands already serve that purpose reasonably well, although you're pretty limited in terms of TX power on the lower bands (I think the limit is in the range of 500mW on the lowest ones, and ~1W on the higher freqs).
As for the equipment, that certainly might be an issue.

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■ Synchronet ■ THAT ONE BBS - Britches and hose for the masses

Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Dreamer to All on Thu Apr 24 2014 12:29 pm

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where
BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling
that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough
interest.

At first I thought this was a little silly, but after more thought I realized it would be nice to have. As with CB Analog, there will be jammers and chaos and wackos and jerks, but, the freedom it brungs would allow for some true innovation. Imagine someone creating a protocol and strategy for digital over long distance and lots of interference.

I would support this.
Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead! -- telnet to bbs.phunc.com

Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Tau to Dreamer on Mon May 05 2014 02:09 pm

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where
BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile

We don't really need an entirely new band - the ISM bands already serve that purpose reasonably well, although you're pretty limited in terms of TX power on the lower bands (I think the limit is in the range of 500mW on the lowest ones, and ~1W on the higher freqs).
As for the equipment, that certainly might be an issue.

Isn't this what MURS is for? It allows A2D, A2B, F2B, F1D, and F2D as well as voice modes and 2W with a 60' high antenna.

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■ Synchronet ■ My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)

I'd like to see a new spectrumopened up for people to play around with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mil

Realistically, one could say that under the right conditions, that
already exist. When SKIP is active, CB band can reach a 30-50 mile and
greater bare-foot. Between noon and 2pm or so, switch to channel 6, or
channel 38, and listen there. You usually hear one of two things.
Either a bunch of static, or talk from a bunch of loud-mouth, potty mouth
trash talking jerks who could care less about the FCC, and think they're
above any laws, because they have more power than everyone else. If you
can get them to shut up long enough, you can talk to them bare foot.
Or, on the quieter channels, you can reach someone by mistake who just
happens to be listening on that channel, hear you and not realize you
are in another state. For what it's worth, you are asking for is a bit
confusing. You want to limit the distance, but do so by limiting the
power. Assuming you limit power to say 4 watts. I can errect a tower to
1490 ft tower, and mount a full-wave ground plane antenna, a half wave
di-pole antenna, and a half-wave vertical di-pole antenna, all wired to
the same feed-point, such that they are somewhat co-phased, but not
necessarily in this purpose. Use Hard-Line for the feed line to the
shack, then use something more managable to get it inside the shack.
With this setup, even the 4-watt power would still likely hit the
repeater 50 miles away or greater. Drop the antenna's down to 10' and
depending on where your antenna's located, the trees, etc. you might
have a different story. Just 1490 feet above ground, you usually can
see ABOVE the trees.... Unless you've got some SERIOUSLY TALL TREES!

range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough interest.

not interested in selling that sort of 'hardware/software'? The
hardware would be the same hardware ham's use every day. Software?
Lots of folks would be more than willing to write any software needed
for various reasons, though just chatting with other users... Again
the software exist on so many levels... PSK31, RTTY, FIELDHELL,
SSTV, WinLink2000.... Check out the latest Ham Radio Now, the one
that has a title about "Meet Joe Ham". Joe Ham's biggest complaint is
He can buy the latest and greatest PACTOR modem (I think Pactor3),
but he couldn't use it legally in the USA right now. He could get a
PACTOR2, but the speed would be comparable to a Signalink from the
way he talked. The ARRL is working to do away with those limits and
allow both hardware and software to be used to full potential, provided
that bandwidth stays within the same limits. Elsewhere, folks on
LinkedIn are wanting to bring back the Novice Class license, provided
hams will 'elmer' new hams. Some places, this would work, other
places, it'd deter folks from becoming a ham. It'd still require a
license, but it'd be more like a "Learner's permit" towards hams.
It's a license to get your feet wet, learn what you need, then
move on to bigger and better things. Your not about to get a ham
to just give up their frequencies to non-licensed operators!
As is, they fight with licensed businesses to keep their frequencies,
and try to grab any free frequencies that become available.

At first I thought this was a little silly, but after more thought I realized it would be nice to have. As with CB Analog, there will be jammers and chaos and wackos and jerks, but, the freedom it brungs would allow for some true innovation. Imagine someone creating a protocol and strategy for digital over long distance and lots of interference.

Not sure exactly what your trying to do. If your wanting to network
two BBS's over great distance, then a posibility of using 10 meters and
either PSK31, RTTY, or that other protocol I can't remember off hand,
I think it starts with H, has 2 letters, 2 numbers, great for high noise.
The only problem is, I don't believe the laws allow you to run a digital
mode station transmitting without a control operator present. It'd be
simple enough to setup a digital mode protocol that first synchronizes
the two systems (or more), then listens to all nodes, the control system
would then select a node to listen to, broadcast that node's ID. All
systems, would then wait for data from that node. The control system
could then re-broadcast the data and ask for an acknowladgement from
all systems. Once all systems acknowladge it, move to the next node.
If a node sends a negative acknowladgement, re-send the data and wait for
any nodes that sent a negative acknowladgement to acknowladge the data.
If you want to get really creative, then have the tones for 'ack' 'nak',
'node-1','node-2', etc. be a recording of a human voice saying
"ACK","NAK","NODE 1", "NODE 2". If it's anything related to ham radio,
and the present FCC laws prevent you from doing it, you can either write
the FCC and make a motion to change it, or contact ARRL, and ask them
to lobby for you to help change it. Anything that is presented to grow
the number of licensed amateur radio operators the ARRL usually will
support. Given a reason to give more abilities to HAMS, and I can't
imagine ARRL not wanting to help you out!

I would support this.
Knight

Knight, e-mail me at westlakegeek@yahoo.com some info on your website
about some of the details for the App.. I'm thinking of upgrading in
a week and a half or so to the latest version of Basic4Android. I can
probably do most of what you talk about in the version I have. I can
make a wrapper that is basically a slimmed down web browser designed
to automatically load up your web page, let you log-in, browse your web
site. If it ask for authentication, I can save the user's user name and
password, such they only enter it once. But I'd like to know more like
how to by-pass that, and pull up a list of spots, show it in a list-box,
post a spot from the phone, etc. Also, do you have an android that you
can see the app, once I write it?

---
John Guillory

Isn't this what MURS is for? It allows A2D, A2B, F2B, F1D, and F2D as well as

I'm pretty sure MURS is licensed, just not the same license as amateur radio. Granted, its another thought...

---
John Guillory [KF5QEO]
westlakegeek@yahoo.com
KF5QEO@1:396/60

Re: Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: kf5qeo to Deuce on Mon May 19 2014 10:46 pm

I'm pretty sure MURS is licensed, just not the same license as amateur radio. Granted, its another thought...

MURS is an unlicensed service.

See http://www/fcc.gov/encyclopedia/multi-use-radio-service-murs-0

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■ Synchronet ■ RetroDigital.net BBS

I would also like to see this progress.

I used to use Packet Radio over CB in England.
We had a few BBS's setup using the F6FBB software and had a great network going from 2005 to 2008.

HAs there been any progress since april?

Raven.

Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Dreamer to All on Thu Apr 24 2014 12:29 pm

I'd like to see a new spectrum opened up for people to play around
with without license... Citizen's Digital Band or something, where BBS's and chats could sit. Perhaps limit it in power to a 30-50 mile range. Probably never happen, no one would be interested in selling that sort of hardware/software, as I doubt there would be enough interest.

At first I thought this was a little silly, but after more thought I

realized

it would be nice to have. As with CB Analog, there will be jammers and chaos and wackos and jerks, but, the freedom it brungs would allow for some true innovation. Imagine someone creating a protocol and strategy for digital

over

long distance and lots of interference.

I would support this.
Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead! -- telnet to bbs.phunc.com

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■ Synchronet ■ MickyBay - mickybay.com

Re: Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Raven to Knight on Wed Oct 22 2014 02:41 pm

I would also like to see this progress.

I used to use Packet Radio over CB in England.
We had a few BBS's setup using the F6FBB software and had a great network going from 2005 to 2008.

HAs there been any progress since april?

How cool is that! Packet over CB? I've never heard of such a thing (though obviously nothing technical should preclude it). How were the BBSes linked up?

Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead! -- telnet to bbs.phunc.com

We had to use RF to transfer the messages & 7Plus (Zip files as messages)
there was quite a good network arround the west midlands there may be some info still on the internet we called ourselvs the UKPG (United Kingdom Packet Group).

we had to play with the callsigns so they would work with the FBB software ENG01A to ENG09A for the BBS's and then used callsigns like CB1YAR, CB1AST etc for the users.

Any mesaing on the system and ALL the BBS's would lock you out.

We just used Danita radio along with Baycom Boards and a little weired switching for the microphone & PTT to work but it was a great system.

Our messages were forwarded by one station in Solihull to Europe when the conditions were right and we got all their messages

it was good fun while it lasted.

You can still hear Packer on ch 1 & 24 of the Eu band.

Raven.

Re: Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Raven to Knight on Wed Oct 22 2014 02:41 pm

I would also like to see this progress.

I used to use Packet Radio over CB in England.
We had a few BBS's setup using the F6FBB software and had a great network going from 2005 to 2008.

HAs there been any progress since april?

How cool is that! Packet over CB? I've never heard of such a thing (though obviously nothing technical should preclude it). How were the BBSes linked

up?

Knight

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■ Synchronet ■ The Phunc BBS -- Back from the dead! -- telnet to bbs.phunc.com

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■ Synchronet ■ MickyBay - mickybay.com

Re: Re: "Anonymous" airchat
By: Raven to Knight on Fri Oct 24 2014 20:14:00

We had to use RF to transfer the messages & 7Plus (Zip files as messages) there was quite a good network arround the west midlands there may be some i still on the internet we called ourselvs the UKPG (United Kingdom Packet Group).

When were you active on CB packet? I was playing with packet on CB back in about 1998, living at the time in Solihull. Me and a friend had the same TNCs but all we could do was send/receive to each other, couldn't find much in the way of packet BBS around at that time.

I've actually rekindled my interest in radio recently, and have got my foundation licence exam next week so am hoping to finally get some packet
time in sometime soon!

Lab Rat


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■ Synchronet ■ Toxic Laboratory BBS - Birmingham, UK - toxicbbs.com