I'm sorry, I think I may have asked this question before, maybe in another sub, about indentation style in Visual Studio... I'm still getting used to it again, and I recently went and lost the virtual machine that I was doing development in, so I ended up with VS 2013 this time around instead of 2010, also.
My problem is that I find the indentation defaults that it won't let you change on your own absolutely atrocious. I think I could maybe find it again in VS 2010, but I'm not finding it at all in 2013. Does anybody know where this and other code style settings are in the interface to VS 2013? I would greatly appreciate it.
It's amazing how much I still hate it being as the visual studios seem to pretty much be kings of the IDE world.

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Khelair to All on Sat Apr 18 2015 16:58:59

I'm sorry, I think I may have asked this question before, maybe in another sub, about indentation style in Visual Studio... I'm still getting used to again, and I recently went and lost the virtual machine that I was doing development in, so I ended up with VS 2013 this time around instead of 2010, also. My problem is that I find the indentation defaults that it
won't let you change on your own absolutely atrocious. I think I
could maybe find it agai in VS 2010, but I'm not finding it at all
in 2013. Does anybody know where this and other code style settings
are in the interface to VS 2013? I would greatly appreciate
it. It's amazing how much I still hate it being as the visual
studios seem to pretty much be kings of the IDE world.

Visual studio is a pain in the butt and the defaults can be really anoying, like searching forever just to tune line number on. I would think that would be a default. I'm seeing more activity with Eclipse lately and java, and i have to say after getting pushed into it at work, it's expansive selection of plugin is very nice, at least when it comes to java. Junit, Emma, Infinitest make coding and writting unit and integration tests a breeze. And to get these features in visual studio you need the ultimate edition which is just plan silly. Not only is Eclipse cross platform, but visual studio is also stuck on windows. Maybe one day microsoft will try to advance their stuff.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Thu Apr 23 2015 23:42:16

Visual studio is a pain in the butt and the defaults can be really anoying, like searching forever just to tune line number on. I would think that would be a default.

I learned where that option is quite a while ago, and now that I know where to look, I find it fairly easy to find and turn on that option. I agree, I think it would be good to have that option turned on by default. It seems that with most IDEs it's not enabled by default.

I'm seeing more activity with Eclipse lately and
java, and i have to say after getting pushed into it at work, it's expansive selection of plugin is very nice, at least when it comes to java. Junit, Emma, Infinitest make coding and writting unit and integration tests a breeze. And to get these features in visual studio you need the ultimate edition which is just plan silly. Not only is Eclipse cross platform, but visual studio is also stuck on windows. Maybe one day microsoft will try to advance their stuff.

I was pushed into Eclipse at work for some stuff too. I think it's a decent IDE, although I feel like some parts of it are a little awkward. I don't particularly like Eclipse's 'workspace' concept (or rather, how Eclipse manages its workspaces). Rather than prompting you which workspace to use on startup, I think it would be better if it would let you open & close workspaces similar to how other IDEs let you open & close projects. I do like Eclipe's plugin ecosystem though.
We were using Eclipse at work for Android development, and I was glad when Google officially switched over to Android Studio as the official Android IDE. Android Studio is based on IntelliJ, which is another IDE for Java that has gained in popularity. I feel like IntelliJ is laid out in a way that makes more sense than Eclipse (and I like its project management better). Android Studio also has integrated support for Gradle, which we were already using as our build system for Android, so Android Studio was able to plug into our projects with not too much effort. I thought it was really nice how well Android Studio worked for us.

Nightfox

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Thu Apr 23 2015 23:42:16

Visual studio is a pain in the butt and the defaults can be really anoying, like searching forever just to tune line number on. I would think that would be a default. I'm seeing more activity with Eclipse lately and java, and i have to say after getting pushed into it at work, it's expansive selection of plugin is very nice, at least when it comes to java. Junit, Emma, Infinitest make coding and writting unit and integration tests a breeze. And to get these features in visual studio you need the ultimate edition which is just plan silly. Not only is Eclipse cross platform, but visual studio is also stuck on windows. Maybe one day microsoft will try to advance their stuff.

I hate windows, but like a lot of things about Visual Studio. That being said, setting internal options is not one of them, nor is their set of defaults. Kind of horrifies me, honestly.
It's been awhile since I've done much work with Java, but I've used Eclipse & NetBeans for it. If either one of them had (at least as of when I last checked) a decent visual editor for user interfaces I'd probably give that another swing (ahrhr) and just do this in Java. It was an introductory project that I was learning C# on, but I've learned enough C# for now. I'd be happy to finish it in Java, which offers more employment in the area anyway.
Have you used Eclipse for languages other than Java at all? Curious as to what some feedback might be for such.

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Fri May 01 2015 16:27:12

I hate windows, but like a lot of things about Visual Studio. That being said, setting internal options is not one of them, nor is their set of defaults. Kind of horrifies me, honestly.

The number of options can be intimidating, but I'd still rather have the options than not have them. The more I do software development over time, the more I learn about various build options, and the more I appreciate being able to change certain build options if I need to. The opposite approach is the approach Apple seems to take, which is less-is-more: They often provide fewer options, with the idea that there is less to go wrong. Recently I started working on some Apple development projects at work, and I found that although Apple's XCode can show line numbers, it doesn't show the column number of the cursor, and there seems to be no option to turn that on.

Nightfox

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Mon Apr 27 2015 20:36:23

I learned where that option is quite a while ago, and now that I know where look, I find it fairly easy to find and turn on that option. I agree, I thi it would be good to have that option turned on by default. It seems that wi most IDEs it's not enabled by default.

Ya, it really boggles my mind on why anyone would not want to see line number when they are coding, especially when an error message pops up and says line xx.. hehe

I was pushed into Eclipse at work for some stuff too. I think it's a decent IDE, although I feel like some parts of it are a little awkward. I don't particularly like Eclipse's 'workspace' concept (or rather, how Eclipse mana its workspaces). Rather than prompting you which workspace to use on startu I think it would be better if it would let you open & close workspaces simil to how other IDEs let you open & close projects. I do like Eclipe's plugin ecosystem though. We were using Eclipse at work for Android
development, and I was glad when Google officially switched over to
Android Studio as the official Android ID Android Studio is based
on IntelliJ, which is another IDE for Java that has gained in
popularity. I feel like IntelliJ is laid out in a way that makes
more sense than Eclipse (and I like its project management better). Android Studio also has integrated support for Gradle, which we were already using a our build system for Android, so Android Studio was able to plug into our projects with not too much effort. I thought it was really nice how well Android Studio worked for us.

I'm still pretty new to eclipse, this is probablyt the first time in many years of having it sit idle on my desktop that i'm acutally using it at work. I must admit that i do find switching betweek views like java EE, Java, and Debug very cumbersome when i'm steping through code. But then i watch some crazy tutorials and see guys flying around with super fast hot keys and stuff so i think i just need to learn all the in's and outs. Unforunally the program im working on is only for the next few months then it's back to the same ol daily grind of my own work.

IntelliJ is pretty nice, i've only used PyCharm for python but i like the enviroment alot. It's a little bloated at times, and i really notice it alot when i run it on my Pi 2. I still have a lot to learn, just so little free time to work on stuff.

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Fri May 01 2015 16:27:12

I hate windows, but like a lot of things about Visual Studio. That being said, setting internal options is not one of them, nor is their set of defaults. Kind of horrifies me, honestly. It's been awhile since
I've done much work with Java, but I've used Eclips NetBeans
for it. If either one of them had (at least as of when I last
checked) a decent visual editor for user interfaces I'd probably give that another swing (ahrhr) and just do this in Java. It was an introductory proj that I was learning C# on, but I've learned enough C# for now. I'd be happy finish it in Java, which offers more employment in the area anyway.
Have you used Eclipse for languages other than Java at all? Curious as to what some feedback might be for such.

There are a crazy amount of options out there. My main language is C/C++ so
i have tinkered with it a little in Eclipse. But it seems like the plugins are lacking for anything other then Java which is a shame. I'be been getting more into Agile development as it's been sorta forced apon us at work. I do like alot of the Test Driven Development concepts of writting unit and integration tests espceially when reworking code.

I'm trying to apply these princials as i start to rewrite my Enthral BBS Software which needs a good over haul. Bascially at work i deal mianly
with JSF and breaking down manager classes into unit and integration
tests. Most of whch were not coded for testing so there is a lot of data mocking to try and test everything.

The plugs for Junit, Emma, are very nice to work with. And i found one call ed infinitest which runs unit tests everytime you click save on a modified file so you know if you broke something right away. I wish there was more stuff like this for C++.. So far i've been rpetty happy with UnitTest++ which comes with support in CodeLite.

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Khelair on Sat May 02 2015 13:14:59

The number of options can be intimidating, but I'd still rather have the options than not have them. The more I do software development over time, t more I learn about various build options, and the more I appreciate being ab to change certain build options if I need to. The opposite approach is the approach Apple seems to take, which is less-is-more: They often provide fewe options, with the idea that there is less to go wrong. Recently I started working on some Apple development projects at work, and I found that althoug Apple's XCode can show line numbers, it doesn't show the column number of th cursor, and there seems to be no option to turn that on.

The more i work with Apple the more i dislike apple. There isn't much i like about xcode at all and the environment in general just sorta irks me. haha Can't really explain it. It just feels so clunky to me at least. But maybe thats becasue i'm always running it in a VM..

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Tue May 05 2015 01:45:59

Ya, it really boggles my mind on why anyone would not want to see line number when they are coding, especially when an error message pops up and says line xx.. hehe

Exactly. :) I've also gotten into the habit of making a mental note of line numbers so that when I'm scrolling around in my code, if there's a part of the code I want to return to, I can go back to that line number.
My theory for why line numbers are disabled by default is that line numbers might have a negative stigma from languages such as BASIC that relied on "goto" to call different sections of code rather than writing functions to do so.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Tue May 05 2015 01:59:22

The more i work with Apple the more i dislike apple. There isn't much i like about xcode at all and the environment in general just sorta irks me. haha Can't really explain it. It just feels so clunky to me at least. But maybe thats becasue i'm always running it in a VM..

As I've worked with Apple stuff more, I have not gotten to like Apple any more than I used to. I don't think it's all bad either though. I like that OS X is based on BSD, so the usual *nix tools are there (such as the bash shell, grep, etc.). BSD is a very stable platform too.

Nightfox

Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Tue May 05 2015 07:43:39

Exactly. :) I've also gotten into the habit of making a mental note of line numbers so that when I'm scrolling around in my code, if there's a part of t code I want to return to, I can go back to that line number. My
theory for why line numbers are disabled by default is that line numbers might have a negative stigma from languages such as BASIC that relied on "go to call different sections of code rather than writing functions to do so.

haha, must be a bunch of old people that came up with that nonsense. :) I find it much easier scrolling function when i remember lines i'm working on. hehe but who knows, there could be the odd balls out there that don't like em :)

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Tue May 05 2015 07:46:00

As I've worked with Apple stuff more, I have not gotten to like Apple any mo than I used to. I don't think it's all bad either though. I like that OS X based on BSD, so the usual *nix tools are there (such as the bash shell, gre etc.). BSD is a very stable platform too.

I like BSD a lot too, ran my bbs off it for several years and ran like an absolute champ. It's seems like apple likes to take stuff and force their tools like xcode to even compile simple programs. Reminds me a lot like microsoft to tell the truth. But they are a company and have to protect
their interests i supose. Just how it works.

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Tue May 05 2015 22:49:41

I like BSD a lot too, ran my bbs off it for several years and ran like an absolute champ. It's seems like apple likes to take stuff and force their tools like xcode to even compile simple programs. Reminds me a lot like microsoft to tell the truth. But they are a company and have to protect their interests i supose. Just how it works.

It seems fairly typical to me for the OS maker to also have development tools for their platform. It's good for them to provide that in order to get developers to write software for their platform. In a way, I think it makes sense, since nobody knows the OS better than the OS maker, so they're in a good position to provide development tools & APIs that let you use the ins & outs of the OS.

I do like having choice though - and you aren't necessarily stuck with XCode for Mac. I believe gcc is available or could be installed on OS X too, and other IDEs (such as CodeBlocks) are available. For the GUI, I once wrote a GUI app for both Windows and Mac using the WxWidgets GUI toolkit - although I did use XCode to build it for Mac.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Wed May 06 2015 07:29:28

It seems fairly typical to me for the OS maker to also have development tool for their platform. It's good for them to provide that in order to get developers to write software for their platform. In a way, I think it makes sense, since nobody knows the OS better than the OS maker, so they're in a g position to provide development tools & APIs that let you use the ins & outs the OS.

Yep, i can understand that each OS might want to have it's own SDK. But to limit normal gcc on the command line to requiring xcode is a little much. I haven't used Xcode's IDE myself, i just have it installed so that i can compile program and i usually use CodeLite, or Code::Blocks. But of course with some of my program that i cross compile i just create make files and
want to compile it quick and easy, and when i had to go through their app store, and developers network and download this absolutly huge install, it's was a bit much. But i got through it and it all work so water under the bridge right. heh

I do like having choice though - and you aren't necessarily stuck with XCode for Mac. I believe gcc is available or could be installed on OS X too, and other IDEs (such as CodeBlocks) are available. For the GUI, I once wrote a app for both Windows and Mac using the WxWidgets GUI toolkit - although I di use XCode to build it for Mac.

Good stuff, i haven't done much GUI work in quite sometime, other then SDL
but i don't think that counts as much. I do like how portable WxWidgets are, they are available in almost everything include python.

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Wed May 06 2015 22:09:36

Yep, i can understand that each OS might want to have it's own SDK. But to limit normal gcc on the command line to requiring xcode is a little much.

I don't think they limit anything there. I believe you're free to install gcc (if it isn't there already) and use it like any other *nix system. At least, I would think so, considering OS X is basically BSD at the core.

but i don't think that counts as much. I do like how portable WxWidgets are, they are available in almost everything include python.

I like that aspect too. I think WxWidgets is a pretty good library, although some aspects remind me of Microsoft's MFC (which isn't necessarily a good thing). I've heard a lot of people like Qt and some recommend it over WxWidgets. I haven't used Qt though.

Nightfox

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Tue May 05 2015 01:56:37

so i have tinkered with it a little in Eclipse. But it seems like the plugins are lacking for anything other then Java which is a shame. I'be been getting more into Agile development as it's been sorta forced apon us at work. I do like alot of the Test Driven Development concepts of writting unit and integration tests espceially when reworking code.

I've noticed that as well. I was going to try using eclipse for some JavaScript work that I'm doing on my own BBS, but I ended up calling that off due to lack of decent support. Hell, I'm still looking for a good editor for JavaScript, being as my project is getting a little bit out of hand for just bouncing around with 5 different copies of 'vim' running right now. I mean I like it, but I really need something that can map the OO layout for me, at the very least.
As far as testing, that's something that I need to throw into play, as well. I'm not familiar enough with testing to know how to do it, but I know that it's exactly what I need for how cumbersome my shell is becoming. TDD is where I'd like to go with it, though I know there are other styles that might be a little easier or quicker to implement. I really need to get my professional software engineer roomie to sit down with me and show me the ins and outs of it. Still haven't been able to find a decent tutorial for things on my own yet.

I'm trying to apply these princials as i start to rewrite my Enthral BBS Software which needs a good over haul. Bascially at work i deal mianly with JSF and breaking down manager classes into unit and integration tests. Most of whch were not coded for testing so there is a lot of data mocking to try and test everything.

Yeah I've got right around 100k of code right now that desperately needs to be rewritten that way. Well, that and I really need to go back and map my layout on a frigging posterboard or something, because it's getting too complex for me to remember off the top of my head. Sucks when I leave an area of the code for a few weeks, come back, and have to try to pick up where I left off. I see some people that can fly in and out of sections of code they haven't touched for awhile like that; I, alas, am not one of them. Too much damage to the memory back in the 90s, I guess. ;)

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Tue May 05 2015 22:49:41

I like BSD a lot too, ran my bbs off it for several years and ran like an absolute champ. It's seems like apple likes to take stuff and force their tools like xcode to even compile simple programs. Reminds me a lot like microsoft to tell the truth. But they are a company and have to protect their interests i supose. Just how it works.

Whoa. You ran a BBS on BSD, also? Mine's running on OBSD 5.6. I thought I was the only one who had done that recently. ;)

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Thu May 07 2015 07:35:19

Re: Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/code style
By: Mercyful Fate to Nightfox on Wed May 06 2015 22:09:36

Yep, i can understand that each OS might want to have it's own SDK. But limit normal gcc on the command line to requiring xcode is a little muc

I don't think they limit anything there. I believe you're free to install g (if it isn't there already) and use it like any other *nix system. At least would think so, considering OS X is basically BSD at the core.

If you use macports etc.. it doesn't install glibc, so you are required to install xcode to be able to compile anything. Thats my only gripe. :)

I like that aspect too. I think WxWidgets is a pretty good library, althoug some aspects remind me of Microsoft's MFC (which isn't necessarily a good thing). I've heard a lot of people like Qt and some recommend it over WxWidgets. I haven't used Qt though.

Ya, i've never been a fan of MFC either. Wx has make a lot of improvements, they old grapics in mid 2000 were pretty bland and donkey looking. heh QT is pretty nice, i've seen some code behind it.. For example Tundradraw is
written using QT. And is a good example of coding in it.

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Thu May 07 2015 06:37:22

I've noticed that as well. I was going to try using eclipse for some JavaScript work that I'm doing on my own BBS, but I ended up calling that of due to lack of decent support. Hell, I'm still looking for a good editor fo JavaScript, being as my project is getting a little bit out of hand for just bouncing around with 5 different copies of 'vim' running right now. I mean like it, but I really need something that can map the OO layout for me, at t very least. As far as testing, that's something that I need to throw
into play, as wel I'm not familiar enough with testing to know how
to do it, but I know that i exactly what I need for how cumbersome
my shell is becoming. TDD is where I like to go with it, though
I know there are other styles that might be a lit easier or quicker
to implement. I really need to get my professional softwa engineer
roomie to sit down with me and show me the ins and outs of it. Sti
haven't been able to find a decent tutorial for things on my own yet.

I haven't seen too much for stright java script with OO. It's a shame i
wanted to dig more into node.js and trying to figure out alot of exotic function calling and parameters for the objects would take quite some time in a basic text editor so i kinda put playing with that on hold for the time being. Some of the web IDE look nice but i hate web IDE's.. they are so clunky like working over a network.

As you some TDD, this video was a great help, at least with basic concepts
and even though it's specific for java and eclipse, it's an awesome reference that can carry over to other languages.. check it out if you get some time:

Testing and Refactoring Legacy Code
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnElPO5BU0

Yeah I've got right around 100k of code right now that desperately needs t be rewritten that way. Well, that and I really need to go back and map my layout on a frigging posterboard or something, because it's getting too comp for me to remember off the top of my head. Sucks when I leave an area of th code for a few weeks, come back, and have to try to pick up where I left off I see some people that can fly in and out of sections of code they haven't touched for awhile like that; I, alas, am not one of them. Too much damage the memory back in the 90s, I guess. ;)

Ya thats alot of code to go through, i have the same problem. I was
bascially learning as i went and didn't know to much about good design concepts and did alot of copy/paste of classes and rewoking to get stuff to
do what i wanted at the time i was writting it. Stepping away for months or more at a time then coming back and forgetting where i left off. In the end it's a working mess, but very hard to extend now which calls for a good reworking. it does suck alot! hehe

Re: BBS on BSD (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation)
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Thu May 07 2015 06:39:16

I like BSD a lot too, ran my bbs off it for several years and ran like absolute champ. It's seems like apple likes to take stuff and force th tools like xcode to even compile simple programs. Reminds me a lot lik microsoft to tell the truth. But they are a company and have to protec their interests i supose. Just how it works.

Whoa. You ran a BBS on BSD, also? Mine's running on OBSD 5.6. I thought was the only one who had done that recently. ;)

Ya BSD was a great test bed for checking code. Bascially i started in windows and hated it, so i move to linux with alot more freedom and posix which is more crossplatform friendly accross linux, bsd, osx etc.. all the good server os's.. :) Developing in linux, then moving the code over to compile on BSD was great for catching any issues that might not have shown up so easily as some distrobutions can be more forgiving then others. After a couple years
of doing that, i moved my system over to it and ran on there for several years. I retired that machine when i got a new desktop but keep BSD in a
VM.. and just recently moved my softare over to ARM on the PI/2 which is pretty decent for running a BBS on. BSD was rock solid though, i would leave that thing up for months with the only issues ever being when the power went out. hehe

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Thu May 07 2015 23:03:49

I haven't seen too much for stright java script with OO. It's a shame i wanted to dig more into node.js and trying to figure out alot of exotic function calling and parameters for the objects would take quite some time in a basic text editor so i kinda put playing with that on hold for the time being. Some of the web IDE look nice but i hate web IDE's.. they are so clunky like working over a network.

Hrm I'd not even thought about checking for anything online. I've forgotten, evidently, that now is the day and age of web apps. I'll have to check that out and see if I can't turn up something that'll help me parse the JS OO.

As you some TDD, this video was a great help, at least with basic concepts and even though it's specific for java and eclipse, it's an awesome reference that can carry over to other languages.. check it out if you get some time:
Testing and Refactoring Legacy Code https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnElPO5BU0

Awesome. Thank you for the reference, I'll check it out as soon as my little one goes to bed tonight. :)

Ya thats alot of code to go through, i have the same problem. I was bascially learning as i went and didn't know to much about good design concepts and did alot of copy/paste of classes and rewoking to get stuff to do what i wanted at the time i was writting it. Stepping away for months or more at a time then coming back and forgetting where i left off. In the end it's a working mess, but very hard to extend now which calls for a good reworking. it does suck alot! hehe

Some of it isn't such a bad thing. Like I mentioned (somewhere, maybe here?) I get into a groove where I'm coding quick and I can remember a lot of the functionality of the code that I've written, but then I find that I'm skimming it, instead of looking for what it's actually DOING. I miss a lot of small bugs that way. Actually, after taking a week off from development on my shell I just realized that I've been doing that and, as a result, chopped through some bugs that've been bugging me for months. Nice to be able to come back with a fresh mind, sometimes. Regardless, it's a better working mess now. :)
Then again, I also see examples of the people you were talking about earlier, where they can fly in and out of different chunks of code that they haven't touched for months and remember everything. Something to aspire to, I guess. *grin*

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Fri May 08 2015 14:57:35

Hrm I'd not even thought about checking for anything online. I've forgott evidently, that now is the day and age of web apps. I'll have to check that out and see if I can't turn up something that'll help me parse the JS OO.

Cool, if you find something worth wide, post it about here and we'll check it out :)

some time: Testing and Refactoring Legacy Code https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NnElPO5BU0

Awesome. Thank you for the reference, I'll check it out as soon as my lit one goes to bed tonight. :)

Hope you like it, i learned alot from it with initial testing and good ways
to go about writting tests.

I started using some of the pratices on my new code, and it helps to break to down and test every scenario that you throw at it, then you know it's solid, and if you have to change something lateron on, you just run the test and
make sure you didn't break anything. The only down side is writting tests
can be slower in the begining, but it saves alot of time lateron when you trying to hunt bugs down and it also documents hows each class is suppose to function. So walking away you can come back and easy see, of year this
method only handles parameters or ranges in this way. Then you can either extend it if needed or write something new.

Some of it isn't such a bad thing. Like I mentioned (somewhere, maybe her
I get into a groove where I'm coding quick and I can remember a lot of the functionality of the code that I've written, but then I find that I'm skimmi it, instead of looking for what it's actually DOING. I miss a lot of small bugs that way. Actually, after taking a week off from development on my she I just realized that I've been doing that and, as a result, chopped through some bugs that've been bugging me for months. Nice to be able to come back with a fresh mind, sometimes. Regardless, it's a better working mess now. : Then again, I also see examples of the people you were talking about earli where they can fly in and out of different chunks of code that they haven't touched for months and remember everything. Something to aspire to, I guess *grin*

I look back and i see some really bug functions with lots of case statements and loops and i'm like shit i really need to break this down becasue when something isn't working, tracing through a big mess like that just isn't
going to work. Then when it comes to trying to rewrite it. i just makes my head hurt.. haha

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Thu May 07 2015 06:37:22

I've noticed that as well. I was going to try using eclipse for some JavaScript work that I'm doing on my own BBS, but I ended up calling that off due to lack of decent support. Hell, I'm still looking for a good editor for JavaScript, being as my project is getting a little bit out of hand for just bouncing around with 5 different copies of 'vim' running right now. I mean I like it, but I really need something that can map the OO layout for me, at the very least.

What do you mean by "map the OO layout"? Something like graphically showing the object relationships?

IMO JavaScript doesn't have good/true OO support anyway.. I've done object coding in JavaScript, but it seems to me that what JavaScript calls an object is really just a map of anything to anything (the data can be of any data type). It's similar to what other languages would call a dictionary or map. And everything is public (there is no private access level in JavaScript).

Nightfox

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Thu May 07 2015 23:03:49

I haven't seen too much for stright java script with OO. It's a shame i wanted to dig more into node.js and trying to figure out alot of exotic function calling and parameters for the objects would take quite some time in a basic text editor so i kinda put playing with that on hold for the time being.

JavaScript's OO support is fairly simplistic compared to other languages. It seems to me that an object in JavaScript is really just a map of properties to data items (where the data items can be of any data type). There's no private or protected access level - Everything in a JavaScript object is public. There's some semblance of inheritance, but it seems a little clunky.

Nightfox

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Nightfox to Mercyful Fate on Sat May 09 2015 09:37:35

JavaScript's OO support is fairly simplistic compared to other languages. I seems to me that an object in JavaScript is really just a map of properties data items (where the data items can be of any data type). There's no priva or protected access level - Everything in a JavaScript object is public. There's some semblance of inheritance, but it seems a little clunky.

My Javascript is pretty limited to doing thigns with Classic ASP sites and a general class on it. When it comes to all of the new stuff like node i'm not too sure how objects or classes are handled. From what i've seen it's just been a lot of functions so far with include files. It's almost surprising it's taken off the way that it has.

Re: Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Sat May 09 2015 03:24:27

Cool, if you find something worth wide, post it about here and we'll check it out :)

Well right now I'm checking out Komodo. I've only just installed it, so I haven't gotten deep with it yet... Only problem that is really frustrating me right now is the fact that I can't run it natively on my BSD machine, which is where I've got the BBS and like to do development for my shell. Something tells me that unless it's _really_ good, I'm not going to be dealing with 'scp'ing those file contents over and over again every time to test out the changes that I've made... That's only my first attempt, though. I've got a few other alternatives in the queue. Hopefully something that will run on BSD or a good web app will pop up soon here. I figured I'd start looking at native environments, first, though, for the same reasons as mentioned before..

Hope you like it, i learned alot from it with initial testing and good ways to go about writting tests.

I haven't checked it out yet, but I'm going to very soon here. I _know_ that TDD or unit testing would make my life so much easier in coding; actually I'm having a rough time getting started this morning, I'll probably check it out after I send this message here. Maybe it'll help me bootstrap into some better productivity.

I started using some of the pratices on my new code, and it helps to break to down and test every scenario that you throw at it, then you know it's solid, and if you have to change something lateron on, you just run the test and make sure you didn't break anything. The only down side is writting tests can be slower in the begining, but it saves alot of time lateron when you trying to hunt bugs down and it also documents hows each class is suppose to function. So walking away you can come back and easy see, of year this method only handles parameters or ranges in this way. Then you can either extend it if needed or write something new.

Yep. I don't mind things going slower at the cost of maintainability and extendability, though. I can easily see those advantages weighing the favor at this point.

I look back and i see some really bug functions with lots of case statements and loops and i'm like shit i really need to break this down becasue when something isn't working, tracing through a big mess like that just isn't going to work. Then when it comes to trying to rewrite it. i just makes my head hurt.. haha

Yep. I've got quite a few stretches of horror-spaghetti code in my work right now. A few months back I went on an editing and refactoring binge in my code and tried to break everything like that down into bits that I could maintain better. Unfortunately there are a few more monoliths that have come into being in my code again since then... Not to mention a ton of debugging cruft because I'm not handling things in a better (testing?) fashion, as well.
Anyhoo, I'm gonna go check out that video. :) Gotta kick myself in the butt on this again somehow, por dios.

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation/co)
By: Nightfox to Khelair on Sat May 09 2015 09:34:46

What do you mean by "map the OO layout"? Something like graphically showing the object relationships?

Yeah that's basically something like what I was looking for. You know, like Visual Studio does for its various object hierarchies. It'd be so nice now that I'm losing track of what is where to have a list of their 'objects', 'methods', and 'properties' all laid out somewhere. That's basically my main goal to find in an IDE right now for JavaScript. Though what you've said below makes it sound like this might be pretty rare...

IMO JavaScript doesn't have good/true OO support anyway.. I've done object coding in JavaScript, but it seems to me that what JavaScript calls an object is really just a map of anything to anything (the data can be of any data type). It's similar to what other languages would call a dictionary or map. And everything is public (there is no private access level in JavaScript).

Yeah I guess I hadn't thought about it in an academic way as such. That's got to make it a little bit more difficult, maybe. I dunno, I've got some different IDEs I'm trying out right now; Komodo IDE and JSEclipse are next up in line... Nothing is doing what I want it to just yet, though.

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Sun May 10 2015 07:50:49

Yep. I've got quite a few stretches of horror-spaghetti code in my work right now. A few months back I went on an editing and refactoring binge in code and tried to break everything like that down into bits that I could maintain better. Unfortunately there are a few more monoliths that have com into being in my code again since then... Not to mention a ton of debugging cruft because I'm not handling things in a better (testing?) fashion, as wel Anyhoo, I'm gonna go check out that video. :) Gotta kick myself in the b on this again somehow, por dios.

I'm having htat same problem, i try to refactor some code and i end up just breaking it, so i really need to figure out a good strat on attaching some of my stuff, but then i waste of alot of time thinking and thinking and not getting much done. Thats my big kicker lately.. :)

Re: Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation
By: Mercyful Fate to Khelair on Sun May 10 2015 22:06:09

I'm having htat same problem, i try to refactor some code and i end up just breaking it, so i really need to figure out a good strat on attaching some of my stuff, but then i waste of alot of time thinking and thinking and not getting much done. Thats my big kicker lately.. :)

Yep yep. :) I'm glad I've made some pretty good progress in the last few days on some things, at least. God I was banging my head against a cinderblock wall for a few months straight there, it seemed like.
So anyway, regarding the IDE stuff (I didn't double check the previous messages, sorry if this isn't to you directly), it looks like an IDE that maps the pseudo-objects of JavaScript the way that I wanted it to isn't quite so rare as I had thought. It's just that it's not turned on by default. I'm finding options for this in netbeans now, I'm guessing it's easier to get to in eclipse than I'd thought, etc etc... Anyway, I posted in JavaScript about that, so that discussion can continue there...
Good luck on the not breaking things! :)

-D/K

---
Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
■ Synchronet ■ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet://tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Re: Eclipse (was Re: Visual Studio 2013 settings regarding indentation
By: Khelair to Mercyful Fate on Mon May 11 2015 07:34:22

regarding the IDE stuff (I didn't double check the previous
messages, sorry if this isn't to you directly), it looks like an IDE that ma the pseudo-objects of JavaScript the way that I wanted it to isn't quite so rare as I had thought. It's just that it's not turned on by default. I'm finding options for this in netbeans now, I'm guessing it's easier to get to eclipse than I'd thought, etc etc... Anyway, I posted in JavaScript about that, so that discussion can continue there... Good luck on the not
breaking things! :)

very cool, i'll make sure to take a look at eclipse or netbeans next time i decide to give some java script a go. I've been in a coding slump the past couple weeks, lots going on ans no energy at night to think and work on
stuff. And my ring ringer got chopped good with a 5000 rpm fan while i was working on my wifes computer.. hehe fun stuff.. :)